Balance transfer misdirected to another account £4k - please help

p3ncilsharpener

pbartlett said:

they were told on one occasion it was a single digit and on another 4 digits apparently

"sainsburus who say it was automated and there was a typo. However on one occasion i was told 1 digit was incorrect and on another i was told 4 digits were incorrect"

The key phrase being "they were told."  And they were told two different things. Unless the OP knows they only made one typo because they've seen the evidence it's best not to assume anything.

As I've already said there is an FOS decision on exactly the same thing just a few months back.  It might be statistically unlikely for someone to A) make a typo B ) have that typo be algorithmically valid and C) there be an actual card number in use for that typo'd card number but winning the lottery is statistically unlikely for any one person too, however with enough people playing the lottery it gets won fairly frequently.  And there will be many balance transfers performed in a given year.  Chances are a few of them "hit the jackpot" so to speak.

eskbanker

sarahern said:

Does anyone know if we can say with certainty that code on misdirected payments would definitely apply? If it was a Faster Payment pursuant to what Sainsburys say in there ts and cs that they use FS for balance transfers, my reading is the code applies.

Very strange that the code itself cannot be found just guidance on the code!

As above, after exploring the issue yesterday, I'm with @p3ncilsharpener (and my original view) that the misdirected payments process wouldn't seem to apply to credit card transfers, although share your frustration that definitive published information seems thin on the ground.

I did suggest that you could ask FOS for their view, but if it did apply then they'd already know that and it would presumably form part of their assessment of how Sainsbury's dealt with your complaint, but as discussed yesterday, that previous FOS case would presumably have cited it if it was relevant.

Even if that process did apply, is there anything to suggest that the actions of the two institutions didn't comply with it?  Do you have a detailed chronology of exactly who did what and when, i.e. the original transaction date, when you advised both parties that it had gone wrong, when Sainsbury's issued the recall, when Barclaycard acted on it, when the funds were withdrawn by the recipient, etc?

sarahern

Yes i have a very detailed chronology. 
I am not clear why the code doesnt apply!
Also just found another ombudmsan decision which upheld a complaint but it wont let me post links 1710091 is the ref relating to a tesco transfer!

p3ncilsharpener

sarahern said:

Yes i have a very detailed chronology. 
I am not clear why the code doesnt apply!
Also just found another ombudmsan decision which upheld a complaint but it wont let me post links 1710091 is the ref relating to a tesco transfer!

It doesn't apply because firstly it applies to the senders of Faster Payments.  You were not the sender of this Faster Payment, Sainsbury's was.  Secondly, it applies where the Faster Payment is sent to the wrong bank account. It was not sent to the wrong bank account, it arrived in Barclaycards bank account as intended. It is the reference that was incorrect (although allegedly incorrect as a result of your error rather than theirs) rather than the sort code or account number.

Regarding that complaint, they did not tell Tesco to reimburse the customer for the incorrect transfer, only compensation for a few fallings in customer service

But I also looked carefully at the Payment Service Regulations covering certain payment service activities – including making credit transfers. And in this case, I thought where the unique identifiers (for example the sort code and account number) provided are incorrect, Tesco isn’t responsible for the payment being carried out incorrectly.

I didn’t think it was in dispute that Mr H entered the wrong credit card number when requesting a balance transfer. So whilst it may have been good practice for Tesco to provide some warning to him that the payment could still go through if he input the wrong details, I didn’t think that means it’s liable to cover the amount lost in this case. 

I’d seen the information given during Mr H’s credit card application suggested customers can only transfer balances to a card in their own name. But I thought the purpose of this notice was to put customers off trying to transfer the outstanding balance of a third party to their account. And I didn’t think it made Tesco responsible for the missing funds.

born_again

sarahern said:

Does anyone know if we can say with certainty that code on misdirected payments would definitely apply? If it was a Faster Payment pursuant to what Sainsburys say in there ts and cs that they use FS for balance transfers, my reading is the code applies.

Very strange that the code itself cannot be found just guidance on the code!

No the code will not apply as it is for payments where a individual has sent the payments to another account. Not for the likes of balance transfers. Which are money movements between banks & card providers. 

DD's & S/O all go via "Faster Payments" they are not covered.

eskbanker

sarahern said:

Yes i have a very detailed chronology.

Your prerogative not to share those details on here, and the actual basis of your complaints, and the failings that Sainsbury's admitted to, but obviously that all reduces the opportunity for posters to try to identify any potential avenues worth pursuing.

Does that chronology suggest to you that either institution acted unreasonably at any stage?

sarahern

But as stated above the ts and cs for sainsburys say they will use Faster Payments for balance transfers.

re my chronology it is extremely lengthy. I can share but will need to use computer! 

sarahern

Chronology of events Sainsburys and Barclaycard balance transfer – misdirected funds

1. 6 January 2021 – credit card account opened with Sainsburys Bank. When completing the online application I completed a balance transfer request from my Barclaycard account for £4048.

2. 14 January 2021 – registered with Sainsburys for online banking to activate my card. The balance transfer was not showing so I assumed upon registration it was just to give an indication and now this needed to be inputted to formally request it. The system was not easy to navigate and did not make this clear. A balance transfer was inputted again, this time in the sum of £4048.08. I have never completed a balance transfer request before.

3. 15 January 2021 – Sainsburys confirm that both balance transfers were processed to Sainsbury’s account

4. 21 January 2021 – I called Sainsburys to say I had arranged a balance transfer but it appeared to have been taken twice. I was advised the quickest way to get the money back was to ask Barclaycard to return it to Sainsburys.

5. 21 January 2021 – contacted Barclaycard who were unable to help with this.

6. 21 January 2021 – called Sainsburys to inform them Barclaycard were unable to help. Advised Sainsburys would recall the funds but this would take 8 weeks to be completed. At this point it was confirmed that my minimum payments would be higher, almost double. I was asked to confirm my Barclaycard number. This was confirmed so I am not clear why at this point Sainsbury’s didn’t check this against the balance transfer requests that had been inputted to check the numbers were correct. I was advised this could take up to 25 March for completion.

7. 2 March 2021 - I understand the recall was successful and Barclaycard returned £4048.08 and this was returned to my Sainbsurys account on this date.

8. 11 March 2021 – Around this date, Barclaycard explained that there was an outstanding balance of £4048.08 still on my account. They told me that Sainsburys had transferred two payments in error but they had only received one of the payments on 15 January 2021. Barclaycard also said the money had gone to a bank account but I did not understand this as I didn’t have a bank account with them, only my credit card. I called Sainsburys again saying my Sainsburys account was showing it had been received but Barclaycard were saying they hadn’t received anything and I still owed £4048.08. Sainsburys have confirmed in their complaint response dated 25 May 2021 that it was on this date, 11 March 2021, that they noticed that the account number inputted on the 2 occasions was different but they were unable to confirm the account details. I was advised again to check with Barclaycard if this money was in a holding account. I was told that they would recall this to my Sainsbury’s account and this should be sorted by 5 May 2021.

9. I then sent a series of secure email messages in March, April and May asking for updates.

10. 5 May 2021 – I received a very brief email from Sainsburys to say the recall had been unsuccessful. I asked for a complaint to be opened and was then advised by Sainbsurys that my complaint had been closed.

11. 13 May 2021 – I called Sainsburys and was told this shouldn’t have been handled in such a bad way. I was promised a call back the next day. This did not happen.

12. 25 May 2021 – final complaint response from Sainsburys. Advisory also called me to go through the complaint response verbally. This took almost 1 hour. I was in a state unable to think straight when I was being informed they were not at fault and there was nothing they could do. Sainsburys are of the view that the error was caused by me inputting the wrong account number during application. Sainsburys said they could not assist any further. Sainsburys say they have asked Barclaycard to return the £4048.08 but Barclaycard tell them they no longer have this money and it cannot be returned. I was advised to speak to Barclaycard. Last message from Barclaycard to Sainsburys says they cannot accept the recall request as the recipient has the funds and did a credit balancerefund on 6 February 2021 to his own bank account, details are redacted of his account. This account is closed with no balance. Sainsburys admit the service I received on 13 May 2021 was unacceptable and offer £50 as a gesture of good will.  I am advised to contact the Ombudsman.

13. 25 May 2021 – multiple calls to Barclaycard. Was cut off twice. Attempted to send emails to Barclaycard thought they responded to say could not take email complaints. Finally spoke to Advisory in Barclaycard and was informed that they do not have any information to where this money has been sent. No information has been saved on my account, it is on the unintended recipients account and I needed to go back to Sainsburys who had this information. I explained and pleaded with The advisor about this and said I knew Sainsburys could not give me this information due to GDPR as it related to someone else’s account. I had already been informed of this by Sainsburys. I contacted Sainsbury’s and as expected they could not provide me with the information. Sainsburys said Barclaycard have the information. I spoke with Sainsburys complaints advisor who said Barclaycard are ‘telling fibs’

14. Sainsburys tell me verbally that the recall was raised 22 March. Recall ref 02082 for £4048.00 was sent and they told Barclaycard the ‘pan’ at that point. Sainsburys sent a chaser on 12 April to Barclaycard. On 16 April Barclaycard responded saying the recall had been unsuccessful Barclaycard confirmed the account details at that point so have the info but are telling me they do not. Sainsburys say they can share the info with Ombudsman but not me.

15. Missing funds are still to be located. I am not clear that Barclaycard or Sainsburys have ever tried to retrieve the funds from the unintended recipient. I am not clear if not,why not.

16. Approximately 26 May 2021, I lodged my complaint to the Ombudsman with supporting evidence.

17. 18 June 2021 – written response from Barclaycard, stating on 26 February 2021 they returned £4048.08 to HSBC account that the funds originated from which put Barclaycard account back into an owing balance. Urging I make contact with Sainsburys bank as they are the company who processed the balance transfers and requested the recalls. Complaint not upheld.

18. 25 June 2021 – written response from Barclaycard stating because I am unable to provide the card number that was submitted to Sainsburys in error, they are unable to locate the account the funds went to. Complaint not upheld. If I can get the details from Sainsburys they will do their best to help

19. 29 June 2021 – additional comprehensive email sent to Ombudsman.

20. 2 August 2021 –  Ombudmsan called to provide an update. She explained she was investigating the conduct of the banks and the Ombudsman had no jurisdiction to retrieve the funds from the unintended recipient. This is up to the banks. A this point I was advised to consider Action Fraud / Small Claims Court. Up until this point, no one had told me this and it became apparent that neither Sianbsurys orBarclaycard had attempted to contact the individual who had received £4048 in error. I was told by the ombudsman time was of the essence and things should have been acted upon quickly. This is 7/8 months later. Again, the indication from the Ombudsman was I may be left with this £4048.08 debt.  I was also told they could not give me a timescale for the completion of the investigation

21. I was in a state and felt totally helpless. At this point I am almost 26 weeks pregnant. I was actually sick. I felt in a state of panic for several days. I was unable to sleep, eat or concentrate.

22. 2 August 2021 – submitted a report to Action Fraud. Will take 28 days to respond.

23. 2 August 2021 – contacted Money Advice Service, advised they could not help me. Directed to Money Helper, submitted a request for assistance to them.

24. 3 August 2021 - I tweeted both Barclaycard and Sainsburys in desperation to ask them to try and retrieve the funds. Barclaycard said they could not help as it was currently with the Ombudsman. I explained Ombudsman had no jurisdiction to retrieve the money and I needed the bank’s assistance. Sainsbury’s did not respond fully.

25. 3 August 2021 – sent additional emails to Ombudsman with tweets asking for advice on where next to turn as I was conscious the Ombudsman could not assist in clawing back the money. I explained I was in a state of panic and stress. I queried how the money could have left my account when there should be name checks in place. I also asked if she could find out if anyone had tried to contact the unintended recipient to retrieve the funds.

 

eskbanker

sarahern said:

But as stated above the ts and cs for sainsburys say they will use Faster Payments for balance transfers.

The issue is that the Faster Payments only forms a part of the process, which is effectively:

1. Internal transfer of funds from your Sainsbury's credit card account to a central processing account used for all such transfers.
2. Faster Payments from central Sainsbury's account to central Barclaycard account used for all such transfers.
3. Internal allocation of funds from central Barclaycard account to nominated credit card account.

so the actual Faster Payments step isn't misdirected, even though the full end-to-end effect isn't what you wanted.

sarahern said:

re my chronology it is extremely lengthy. I can share but will need to use computer! 

Don't feel obliged to, but it would be useful to understand whether any steps involved any undue delay, when prompter action could have made a difference.

p3ncilsharpener

sarahern said:

Up until this point, no one had told me this and it became apparent that neither Sianbsurys orBarclaycard had attempted to contact the individual who had received £4048 in error. 

 

What makes you think this?  You've said it a few times and I've asked why you know they didn't send a letter (to be clear Sainsbury's have no idea who the recipient is so only Barclaycard could do this) but nothing has been forthcoming.