Balance transfer misdirected to another account £4k - please help

eskbanker

sourcrates said:

I don`t have a "blind hatred" of anyone, this is a consumer based website, we always adhere to the mantra, that regardless of the financial problem, if you ain`t happy, you are free to complain in any way you see fit.

Personally I'd like to see the OP get her 4 grand back, will it happen ? who knows, but she should not be put off trying.

I think its both reasonable, and realistic, for her to give it a go.

I don't really want to get involved in the animated and polarised rhetoric but would just observe that IMHO the key thing here is to identify the most productive route for OP to take, since being selective and focused is likely to be more fruitful than lashing out in all directions. 

To a certain extent the die is already cast, in that she's gone through the formal complaint processes with both institutions and has now escalated to FOS, a fact that the banks are aware of, so it's largely a case of having to wait until the FOS makes its decision about whether there is any evidence of wrongdoing or fault by either bank and if so, what the appropriate response would be. 

People can opine about how balance transfers could/should work in an ideal world, but the FOS will at least be familiar with relevant regulatory requirements, best industry practice, precedent cases and all of the specific detail of this case, so are best placed to adjudicate, with escalation to an actual ombudsman for a legally binding decision available if the initial adjudication is deemed inappropriate by either party.

Ultimately I suspect that OP will need to get a court order to ascertain the recipient's identity - it's frustrating that Sainsbury's appear to be abiding correctly by their data protection obligations by redacting data they shouldn't even have seen, especially when in the FOS case cited earlier, the recipient's identity was apparently made available to the sender, helpfully but (as I understand it) unlawfully:

Tesco asked V for the details of the third party so Mr H could pursue them directly. Between September 2018 and January 2019, Tesco chased V for this information on a number of occasions. And around April 2019, it gave Mr H details of the third party.

pbartlett

I agree with esk and would add that if the OP wants guidance on how to.proceed i would suggest they 


1. consult a solicitor on the approx cost of obtaining a) a npo against Barclays to obtain the details of the recipient of the money and b) an order against Sainsbury to produce a  copy of the payment transfer and in particular the reference field.

2. once costs are known, decide on the merits of thus preceeding and once the id is established going to the courts to get the money returned plus expenses.

mags21

pbartlett said:

I agree with esk and would add that if the OP wants guidance on how to.proceed i would suggest they 


1. consult a solicitor on the approx cost of obtaining a) a npo against Barclays to obtain the details of the recipient of the money and b) an order against Sainsbury to produce a  copy of the payment transfer and in particular the reference field.

2. once costs are known, decide on the merits of thus preceeding and once the id is established going to the courts to get the money returned plus expenses.

If OP has legal expenses cover on their home insurance maybe, just maybe that could be a way forward.

sarahern

Thanks all ill have a look. I think unlikely to be able to afford a solicitor so will likely represent myself and look into the process for obtaining an NPO and then small claims. Not sure if would have to be separate sets of proceedings. Will need to spend time researching. I will look into home insurance legal expense insurance definitely!

p3ncilsharpener

sourcrates said:

p3ncilsharpener said:

sourcrates said:

p3ncilsharpener said:

I also know how much money banks make but I also know that they won't be the ones who would foot this bill, if they were to reimburse the OP, it would be all their other customers.  Perhaps you're OK with footing the bill for other people's mistakes.  Outside of insurance, I'm not.

Surely an amicable outcome all round would be for one of these financial institutions to take some pity on their customer.

Does she really deserve to be castigated by these multinationals because of one simple error ?

All you have posted previously may be correct, but is it fair, I don`t believe it is, my own keyboard sticks occasionally, its very easy to make an error, and not to spot it before its too late.


Your quote above is quite ironic, and quite harsh actually, these companies are worth billions, 4k is but a tiny drop in the ocean to them, do you really think there shareholders will miss it ?

Come on, each CEO`s annual bar bill must be 3 times that alone, they are much more able to take the hit than the OP is, and could do so without blinking an eye.

For example, banks make money from selling on bad debt every day for a fraction of its actual worth, writing off any loss against tax.

They could do exactly the same thing here, if they wished, with little if any loss, and gain good publicity in the process.


You are very good at posting stats, and findings, rules and guidance etc, but you mostly leave out the human touch, and that is the part that can usually make the difference between success and failure, I stand by my first post advocating a strategy of publicity which will, hopefully induce a goodwill offer, the one thing more powerful than any law in the land is the voice of reason.

She isn't being "castigated by multinationals."  They're not punishing her, they're just not dipping into their other customers wallets over a mistake that wasn't their or their other customers fault.

I know you don't like any financial institution, debt collector or parking co (and maybe a few others) but it'd really nice if you could occasionally see past your blind hatred and be reasonable and realistic about these matters.

Again, your cherry picking your response from my post, but that`s only to be expected.

I don`t have a "blind hatred" of anyone, this is a consumer based website, we always adhere to the mantra, that regardless of the financial problem, if you ain`t happy, you are free to complain in any way you see fit.

Personally I'd like to see the OP get her 4 grand back, will it happen ? who knows, but she should not be put off trying.

I think its both reasonable, and realistic, for her not to give up.

You do have blind hatred for these financial companies and you have been repeatedly called out for it.  Being a "consumer" site is irrelevant, I want to give the correct information for any situation, but you seem happy to blow smoke up peoples backsides telling them what they want to hear.  It'll get you likes from the OP if that's what you crave, but it's rarely helpful.

I want the OP to get their 4 grand back, but not at the expense of everyone else.

FaceHead

mags21 said:

pbartlett said:

I agree with esk and would add that if the OP wants guidance on how to.proceed i would suggest they 


1. consult a solicitor on the approx cost of obtaining a) a npo against Barclays to obtain the details of the recipient of the money and b) an order against Sainsbury to produce a  copy of the payment transfer and in particular the reference field.

2. once costs are known, decide on the merits of thus preceeding and once the id is established going to the courts to get the money returned plus expenses.

If OP has legal expenses cover on their home insurance maybe, just maybe that could be a way forward.

This ^^

I skipped the middle 7 or so pages of the thread, so perhaps this has already been said. 

The holder of that barclaycard is the thief who has done a credit balance refund to take the OP's money away from where it could be recalled by sainsburys.

Sainsburys should freely tell the OP the account details which the OP has provided them (but not the identity of the holder).

Barclaycard know the identity, but won't reveal them due to data protection, GDPR etc.

What the OP needs is a court order to compel Barclaycard to reveal the identity of that card holder, and then to take small claims action against that thief. They can also report to the police, but without the details of the holder first, the police probably won't bother to get the details from barclaycard. 

The small claims bit is easy. Identifying the other barclaycard customer is the hard bit. The court order is known as a norwich pharmacal order. Cost is £2k+ to get a solicitor to do it. The court fee is c.£560.  So, use your home legal protection, or if you don't have any, consider whether you might have a go at DIY-ing getting the initial court order, or whether to risk another few £k on a solicitor. 

Even if you don't have legal protection, you will probably eventually get the cost of the court order back from the thief - if they have the money to pay it and the stolen BT. They have committed a crime against you so you have the right to sue them for the damages (the BT and the costs involved in finding them). You just need to identify them first.

pbartlett

well said and don't be too sure the police won't investigate and contact barclays - it has happened before although i cannot provide a link.

sarahern

Police have confirmed they wont investigate. To speak to action fraud. Have already lodged report with them. 

Not coverer by legal expense insurance sadly. 

pbartlett

you could try Grace

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/columnist-1424256/Grace-Case.html

p00hsticks

pbartlett said:

you could try Grace

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/columnist-1424256/Grace-Case.html

or Katie Morley of the Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/katie-investigates/katie-morley-investigates-contact-form/