Balance transfer misdirected to another account £4k - please help

sarahern

Because no one has explicity said they have contacted them. No one has confirmed that. Sainsburys say they dont have their details and  Barclays in recent conversation say they couldnt locate the details of the recipient as this info wasnt saved to my account. It was on that persons account. Despite having earlier told sainsburys who it was!

eskbanker

sarahern said:

Chronology of events Sainsburys and Barclaycard balance transfer – misdirected funds

1. 6 January 2021 – credit card account opened with Sainsburys Bank. When completing the online application I completed a balance transfer request from my Barclaycard account for £4048.

2. 14 January 2021 – registered with Sainsburys for online banking to activate my card. The balance transfer was not showing so I assumed upon registration it was just to give an indication and now this needed to be inputted to formally request it. The system was not easy to navigate and did not make this clear. A balance transfer was inputted again, this time in the sum of £4048.08. I have never completed a balance transfer request before.

3. 15 January 2021 – Sainsburys confirm that both balance transfers were processed to Sainsbury’s account
Does this mean that they notified you that day, or that they've later confirmed it happened that day?

4. 21 January 2021 – I called Sainsburys to say I had arranged a balance transfer but it appeared to have been taken twice. I was advised the quickest way to get the money back was to ask Barclaycard to return it to Sainsburys.
That wasn't helpful or accurate advice! 

5. 21 January 2021 – contacted Barclaycard who were unable to help with this.

6. 21 January 2021 – called Sainsburys to inform them Barclaycard were unable to help. Advised Sainsburys would recall the funds but this would take 8 weeks to be completed. At this point it was confirmed that my minimum payments would be higher, almost double. I was asked to confirm my Barclaycard number. This was confirmed so I am not clear why at this point Sainsbury’s didn’t check this against the balance transfer requests that had been inputted to check the numbers were correct. I was advised this could take up to 25 March for completion.
If you were asked to confirm your Barclaycard number then yes, not unreasonable to expect Sainsbury's to check and notice that two different Barclaycard accounts had been credited.  Their 8 week timescale sounds lengthy, not sure why it should take that long.

7. 2 March 2021 - I understand the recall was successful and Barclaycard returned £4048.08 and this was returned to my Sainbsurys account on this date.
So this was recalled from your own Barclaycard account, rather than the erroneous one - if Sainsbury's had noticed that the funds had been sent to two different accounts on 21 January then the recall should obviously have been made from the erroneous account rather than yours.

8. 11 March 2021 – Around this date, Barclaycard explained that there was an outstanding balance of £4048.08 still on my account. They told me that Sainsburys had transferred two payments in error but they had only received one of the payments on 15 January 2021. Barclaycard also said the money had gone to a bank account but I did not understand this as I didn’t have a bank account with them, only my credit card. I called Sainsburys again saying my Sainsburys account was showing it had been received but Barclaycard were saying they hadn’t received anything and I still owed £4048.08.

Sounds like wires maybe got crossed somewhere here - surely Barclaycard were saying that they'd only received one payment to your account, not the two that Sainsbury's were perhaps saying, and the fact that this had been recalled left you owing them the £4K. 

Sainsburys have confirmed in their complaint response dated 25 May 2021 that it was on this date, 11 March 2021, that they noticed that the account number inputted on the 2 occasions was different but they were unable to confirm the account details. I was advised again to check with Barclaycard if this money was in a holding account. I was told that they would recall this to my Sainsbury’s account and this should be sorted by 5 May 2021.
They should have spotted this discrepancy on 21 January, clarified with you which was the right and wrong Barclaycard account, and recalled the erroneous one then.

9. I then sent a series of secure email messages in March, April and May asking for updates.

10. 5 May 2021 – I received a very brief email from Sainsburys to say the recall had been unsuccessful. I asked for a complaint to be opened and was then advised by Sainbsurys that my complaint had been closed.
I don't understand how you're asking to open a complaint but they're concurrently telling you that it's been closed?

11. 13 May 2021 – I called Sainsburys and was told this shouldn’t have been handled in such a bad way. I was promised a call back the next day. This did not happen.

12. 25 May 2021 – final complaint response from Sainsburys. Advisory also called me to go through the complaint response verbally. This took almost 1 hour. I was in a state unable to think straight when I was being informed they were not at fault and there was nothing they could do. Sainsburys are of the view that the error was caused by me inputting the wrong account number during application. Sainsburys said they could not assist any further. Sainsburys say they have asked Barclaycard to return the £4048.08 but Barclaycard tell them they no longer have this money and it cannot be returned. I was advised to speak to Barclaycard. Last message from Barclaycard to Sainsburys says they cannot accept the recall request as the recipient has the funds and did a credit balancerefund on 6 February 2021 to his own bank account, details are redacted of his account. This account is closed with no balance. Sainsburys admit the service I received on 13 May 2021 was unacceptable and offer £50 as a gesture of good will.  I am advised to contact the Ombudsman.
I think that if Sainsbury's had been more diligent on 21 January, they should have recalled the money then, before the recipient had the chance to withdraw it on 6 February.

13. 25 May 2021 – multiple calls to Barclaycard. Was cut off twice. Attempted to send emails to Barclaycard thought they responded to say could not take email complaints. Finally spoke to Advisory in Barclaycard and was informed that they do not have any information to where this money has been sent. No information has been saved on my account, it is on the unintended recipients account and I needed to go back to Sainsburys who had this information. I explained and pleaded with The advisor about this and said I knew Sainsburys could not give me this information due to GDPR as it related to someone else’s account. I had already been informed of this by Sainsburys. I contacted Sainsbury’s and as expected they could not provide me with the information. Sainsburys said Barclaycard have the information. I spoke with Sainsburys complaints advisor who said Barclaycard are ‘telling fibs’

14. Sainsburys tell me verbally that the recall was raised 22 March. Recall ref 02082 for £4048.00 was sent and they told Barclaycard the ‘pan’ at that point. Sainsburys sent a chaser on 12 April to Barclaycard. On 16 April Barclaycard responded saying the recall had been unsuccessful Barclaycard confirmed the account details at that point so have the info but are telling me they do not. Sainsburys say they can share the info with Ombudsman but not me.

15. Missing funds are still to be located. I am not clear that Barclaycard or Sainsburys have ever tried to retrieve the funds from the unintended recipient. I am not clear if not,why not.
I don't think they're under any obligation to - by the time Sainsbury's asked Barclaycard to recall the money, it was no longer there.  It's neither institution's role to try to recover it from the recipient if it's no longer in the account.

16. Approximately 26 May 2021, I lodged my complaint to the Ombudsman with supporting evidence.

17. 18 June 2021 – written response from Barclaycard, stating on 26 February 2021 they returned £4048.08 to HSBC account that the funds originated from which put Barclaycard account back into an owing balance. Urging I make contact with Sainsburys bank as they are the company who processed the balance transfers and requested the recalls. Complaint not upheld.

18. 25 June 2021 – written response from Barclaycard stating because I am unable to provide the card number that was submitted to Sainsburys in error, they are unable to locate the account the funds went to. Complaint not upheld. If I can get the details from Sainsburys they will do their best to help

19. 29 June 2021 – additional comprehensive email sent to Ombudsman.

20. 2 August 2021 –  Ombudmsan called to provide an update. She explained she was investigating the conduct of the banks and the Ombudsman had no jurisdiction to retrieve the funds from the unintended recipient. This is up to the banks. A this point I was advised to consider Action Fraud / Small Claims Court. Up until this point, no one had told me this and it became apparent that neither Sianbsurys orBarclaycard had attempted to contact the individual who had received £4048 in error. I was told by the ombudsman time was of the essence and things should have been acted upon quickly.
Sounds like an encouraging comment - if she feels one or both didn't act quickly enough and that this prevented the money being recalled then she may consider them liable to refund.

This is 7/8 months later. Again, the indication from the Ombudsman was I may be left with this £4048.08 debt.  I was also told they could not give me a timescale for the completion of the investigation

21. I was in a state and felt totally helpless. At this point I am almost 26 weeks pregnant. I was actually sick. I felt in a state of panic for several days. I was unable to sleep, eat or concentrate.

22. 2 August 2021 – submitted a report to Action Fraud. Will take 28 days to respond.
As per earlier post, I think this is a waste of time.

23. 2 August 2021 – contacted Money Advice Service, advised they could not help me. Directed to Money Helper, submitted a request for assistance to them.
Not sure what either of these can offer either, although understand your desperation to find someone who can.

24. 3 August 2021 - I tweeted both Barclaycard and Sainsburys in desperation to ask them to try and retrieve the funds. Barclaycard said they could not help as it was currently with the Ombudsman. I explained Ombudsman had no jurisdiction to retrieve the money and I needed the bank’s assistance. Sainsbury’s did not respond fully.

25. 3 August 2021 – sent additional emails to Ombudsman with tweets asking for advice on where next to turn as I was conscious the Ombudsman could not assist in clawing back the money. I explained I was in a state of panic and stress. I queried how the money could have left my account when there should be name checks in place.
Name checks would help but there isn't any such industry scheme currently in place and in the case study you cited earlier, FOS didn't consider that to be a fault or omission of the sending institution. 

I also asked if she could find out if anyone had tried to contact the unintended recipient to retrieve the funds.

As above, I don't believe anyone is obliged to.

Comments above, but it'll be interesting to see whether they align with the FOS's perspective....

born_again

Does your Barclaycard statement show a reversal of a balance transfer?

Need this to make sense of 7 & 8.

If it does not then the reclaimed funds are from the other (not your) account. If it does then they have reversed the balance transfer your wanted to make, if so what was the amount reversed?

Sainsburys should have checked the card reference you gave (6) but the front line team may not have these details. It will be a back office team that would check this, or a automated system. So if you gave them your barclaycard no, then any recall will have been on that card (refer back to 1st line of post) And it should have been made clear to them the amount that you wanted reversing as it would not be the one that was showing on your barclaycard statement.

14. Confirmed acc  details could be as vague as they confirmed the card Pan. Nothing more.

7. You say  I understand the recall was successful and Barclaycard returned £4048.08 Yet in 10 you say I received a very brief email from Sainsburys to say the recall had been unsuccessful.

My gut feeling here is that it has not gone to another customers account, but is sat somewhere in a Barclays internal acc as they are unable to locate the acc the funds should go to via the reference (card pan) 
And unless Sainsburys know the card no used for the wrong transfer & give this to Barclays to find. It will not doubt sit there for a long time till a audit is done on the account.

sarahern

I really dont know how to quote back to the points raised as i am using my phone and every time i try it fails! I am really grateful to you for your time and advice. Some points:-

- 15 jan i wasnt notified
, from memory, theyve later told me. Ive checked my account on or around 21 jan and noticed the amount as in excess of £8k and noted 2 bts done on 15 jan.
-point 10 re closing complaint - yes i had an email to say it was closed as id been calling aswell as emailing. Absolutely bizarre!
- all other points noted thank you

- yes sainsburys shows a reversal of the bt as the amount owed went from £8k to around £4k when one of the bts was recalled successfully barclaycard amount also went to 00.00 at one point
- yes was later told it was unsucessful. I think they attempted 3 bt recalls in total
- the complaint response states the recipient did a credit refund so i assume it was withdrawn. Sains do have the card details and have shared it with barc.

sarahern

See above where barclays say the recipient did a balance credit refund on 6 feb.

p3ncilsharpener

sarahern said:

Because no one has explicity said they have contacted them. No one has confirmed that. Sainsburys say they dont have their details and  Barclays in recent conversation say they couldnt locate the details of the recipient as this info wasnt saved to my account. It was on that persons account. Despite having earlier told sainsburys who it was!

They haven't said they haven't either.  You can't assume because Barclaycard isn't going to discuss their personal communications between themselves and the customer that no letter was sent.

Barclaycard not being able to locate the details of the recipient when you contacted them was because it went to another account, but when Sainsbury's contacted them they would have been able to give them the details of the correct account which their systems would have retained.

Sainsbury's don't have the details of the recipient because the recipient is not their customer.

xlnc99

This is awful. 

Email the ceo and the top dogs daily! Trust me someone will get back to you and look it it properly. Threaten to go to the news etc. 

I would be causing havoc daily if this happened to me. Give them a sob story, tell them you are pregnant and its causing stress for you and your baby etc etc.

p3ncilsharpener

xlnc99 said:

This is awful. 

Email the ceo and the top dogs daily! Trust me someone will get back to you and look it it properly. Threaten to go to the news etc. 

I would be causing havoc daily if this happened to me. Give them a sob story, tell them you are pregnant and its causing stress for you and your baby etc etc.

Why?  It was the OP's error that caused this.  "Giving them hell" is entirely uncalled for.

sarahern

Allegedly my error. Still no evidence of this. I think we have established pencilsharpener is v pro banks! Thank you anyway for your continued input. Lots of people trying to help. 

sarahern

And it actually is causing stress for me and my baby. Ive not slept. Constantly feeling ill and panic. It is actually making me ill.