GLUCOSAMINE. Save £60 a Year

Dora_the_Explorer_5

You could try searching the net for Glucosamine scientific studies, properly conducted amongst large population groups and peer reviewed. Drugs studies repeated occasionally throw up rare, and statistically insignificant, side effectss.

Ted_Hutchinson

[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Side effectsThere are very few side effects with either of the above supplements and Glucosamine and chondroitin have been used for over 20 years in Europe without any complication. They can also be used with other supplements without fear of adverse interaction. Although it must be said that no medication or supplement is guaranteed side effect free.
[/FONT]My partner takes Glucosamine sulphate so you can be sure I've checked out the safety. It really is a very very safe supplement. I am quite convinced your wife's DVT was not related at all to her intake of Glucosamine.
DVT is caused by clot formation.
If anything the research Inhibitory action of glucosamine on platelet activation in guinea pigs. shows that the glucosamine your wife was taking would have an inhibitory effect on clot formation.
For those unaware of the benefits of glucosamine Glucosamine and chondroitin for knee OA
Chondroitin sulphate for osteoarthritis

theloft

Simply Supplements delivery finally arrived to-day 5th June. Order placed and confirmed on 17th May. What sort of service is that! 19 days!! Also their 2 for 1 offer is a joke really. I ordered two different supplements, both totalling 120 tabs. They arrived in 4 different pots, each containing 60 tabs. I tipped 2 lots into 1 pot and in both cases, the 120 tabs. hardly came to halfway up the container. Makes no sense to me, and the 2 for 1 is just a gimmick.

Ted_Hutchinson

Well I'm sorry your experience with SS hasn't been a happy one. I wouldn't be best pleased either but I've never had any problems with them and will use them again.
The Bandolier links I've provided in post #123 are from completely independent unbiased medical professionals. If your GP isn't prepared to take advice from independent experts thats his decision. Similarly we've had lots of people saying they are prescribed glucosamine/chondroitin tablets. But if your GP won't apart from changing doctors there is little you can do.
This latest research Shows that not everyone benefits from Glucosamine/chondroitin so maybe that's why your GP isn't prepared to write prescriptions for it.
I agree with you that SS buy one get one free is silly, if you want 360 tablets providing them in 2 containers of 180 and saying you pay for one and get the other free simply wastes postage and packaging. Be much better if they stopped it but I suspect it's a reflection on the simple mindedness of the average buyer. I'm sure they do it that way because it works.

theloft

Ted_ I know you have always recommended SS and quite rightly if your experience is good. I will only use them again if the price is significantly better than Healthspan and I mean significantly. (which it sometimes is to be fair). But the 2 for 1 is a tatty way to promote their goods, it smacks of marketing to the masses, like many TV Ads. in other words "treat them like morons, they won't know the difference".
I guess my doc has read that article as well and they have meetings to discuss this sort of thing, which is why he says there is a difference of opinion.

Arcmedic

I find these comments quite interesting. Ted you quote and list studies and I have a few questions so I can get things into perspective. Do you have a background in statistical analysis? are you medically trained? the reason for these questions I shall explain.

Quoting the abstract from 1 paper and calling this "the latest research" is akin to trying to fly by flapping your arms and jumping off a cliff. Whilst I appreciate bandolier is a very good site for systematic reviews and they give a nice overview of the paper, you have to do some legwork yourself. Reading an abstract and linking it here defacto is dangerous, to appreciate a study you must first read the paper wholly yourself and compare it against set criteria: nature of study, sample size, ethics, previous research, methods, statistical analysis used etc. Rather than simply quote the abstract and using that as 'evidence' alone there is absolutely no guarantee to the reliability of the study. Publication is not a guarantee that it has been thoroughly reviewed, or the information therein is accurate. If this was the case Andrew Wakefield wouldn't be in the mess he is in now.

Whether a GP prescribes or not depends on the evidence base supporting the supplement requested. This requires numerous solid studies showing a positive statistically significant outcome, not one or 2 anecdotal ones. Maybe he didn't feel the evidence base was wholly solid enough, or maybe he just wasn't fully on board with regards to glucosamine and didn't feel safe prescribing him. Whilst it may seem ok to criticise health professionals on a public forum like this, you may like to appreciate that we live in a litigacious society and medical professionals are ripe targets, rather wrongly in many cases for litigation.

Stating that iainbs's wifes DVT was not due to glucosamine is dangerous, unless you are medically qualified and registered with the general medical council then making that statement on the background that you have no knowledge of human anatomy, physiology, biochemistry or pharmacology is a very precarious statement to make. I understand the risk factors and pathogenesis of DVT but making such comments without a thorough history, examination and relevant investigations is very irresponsible indeed.

Ted_Hutchinson

Arcmedic wrote:

I find these comments quite interesting

Well I find your post quite amusing.

I don't particularly want to get into a spat with you over the relative merits/dangers of supplements compared to prescription medicines but am happy to if that's where you want to go.

However I do think you have misread my posts, I feel that my comments regarding the reluctance/willingness of some doctors to prescribe glucosamine chondroitin are in fact balanced and are in no way critical. The evidence I used to support my opinions is indeed relatively recent and I think it provides sufficient information to support the comments I have made. I think it allows the reader to see why some doctors may not consider glucosamine a cost effective treatment which is all it was intended to do.

Perhaps, it would be helpful to me to understand where you are coming from, if you could quote the words I used which imply a criticism of any health professional. As I post in my own name and can be traced instantly I always ensure everything I write is supported by evidence. I'm therefore more than happy to discuss my views further in any scenario.

I think that medical professionals who raise doubts about the safety of innocuous supplements are the folk who are behaving in an irresponsible and dangerous manner. Bearing in mind the causes of DVT and the safety of glucosamine I believe my comments have more common sense in them than do yours. This is a GENERAL INFORMATION forum. It is not a place for MEDICAL ADVICE nor medically based opinions. There is no way a diagnosis or treatment plan can be given in this type of forum. Ian asked for comments relating to DVT and glucosamine. I gave my comment as a member of the public. If you are aware of any concern regarding the use of glucosamine in relation to it causing DVT then it is reasonable for you to produce it so others at risk of DVT can avoid this hazard. Once again I stress this is a very safe supplement and it is in my opinion, irresponsible and dangerous, to raise concerns where none are justified.

To cheer you up you may find This amusing.

Dora_the_Explorer_5

Any sensible person will discuss with their GP the pros and cons of taking an over the counter supplement for a considerable length of time.
Much misinformation is posted on forums about the efficacy or otherwise of minerals, vitamins, herbs, and complementary or alternative therapies for particular conditions. Medical professionals who raise doubts about safety are acting in patients best interests, not their own. Anything ingested cannot by it's very nature be innocuous.
A sensible discussion with a GP can save vast amounts of money being spent on unecessary self medication, fitting with the ethos of a moneysaving site.

Arcmedic

Whilst I appreciate patients *might* see there GP about taking X, Y or Z supplement, that wasn't the full point I was making. Ted has skipped around the subject whether he is medically trained or not or whether he has any statistical experience in peer reviewing papers. This might not seem important but it is. You cannot quote papers as evidence X, Y or Z works if you do not understand how they work and can critically appraise them yourself to ensure sample size, methods employed were effective and err free?

As for "I think that medical professionals who raise doubts about the safety of innocuous supplements are the folk who are behaving in an irresponsible and dangerous manner." - What a completely idiotic statement. If you had any pharmacology knowledge at all, which it is clear you do not you would know this statement is utter rubbish. There are plenty of supplements that are certainly not innocuous at all and are clearly listed as being toxic or interfering with other medication and either reducing or amplifying its effect.

As for members of public giving comments with regards to a pathologic disease and its possible causes? what next a member of the public telling nasa how they should build their next rocket? As for producing evidence to the contrary re glucosamine and DVT I thought you said this was not a forum for medical opinion or advice.

"Glucosamine sulphate so you can be sure I've checked out the safety. It really is a very very safe supplement. I am quite convinced your wife's DVT was not related at all to her intake of Glucosamine." - So you checked the safety that makes it ok? Your quite convinced? what? you are not a Dr so i'm sorry but again if you are not qualified to speak about it then stop offering up self opinionated and clearly WRONG advice.

theloft

My GP is certainly one of those who is not convinced about the effectiveness of Glucosamine. He has not expressed any concern regarding the safety aspect, but says that his group, who meet on a regular basis to discuss various topics, have decided that there is insufficient evidence to justify prescribing Glucosamine. From our point of view they are cheap enough these days to buy and we continue to take them (with MSM) on a regular basis.