Britannia parking Plymouth.

KeithP

So tell us why you didn't sent your Defence to ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk?

And since you sent an apparently shortened version via the MCOL website, I wonder which version will get filed.

What a silly idea that was.

migmash

            I did, i just missed adding a letter "c" to one of the email addresses i mentioned in that last message

ie: ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk , and i wrote cbcaq@justice.gov.uk

Coupon-mad

But you ruined the defence by putting a shorter one in a 122 word box on MCOL that we clearly advise people not to EVER use. NO-ONE HERE FILLS IN THAT BOX.  

THAT IS NOW YOUR DEFENCE.

So, what shorter defence are you now stuck with?

migmash

I will look at it again in a mo . .  .  i need to see where it mentions on here"do not use the box to submit defence"

migmash

                Am going to read through "newbies" section once again. Nothing was ever said about 122 limit when it comes to actually submitting, i would never have got the rest of template on (though i know it wouldn't matter, if it was going to be left blank)

                   How do you just ignore the box, when you are being asked to fill it in . .   . does that site hold any authority of any kind, is it not a government site that will be used in the court case? I don't do this every day, and i have a lot of other things going on at present, and this is becoming all consuming, and irritating to be frank . . .  . 

                   So when i copy and paste/scan, sign/date whatever, and then send to ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk  as advised, and also to mcol@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk to make sure they have a copy, why is the emailed copy to mcol not going to be any use/ignored? 

Reference

Reference

!!!!!! Turpin

Defence

1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to
relief in the sum claimed, or at all. It is denied that a
contract was entered into - by conduct or otherwise - whereby it
was agreed to pay a parking charge and it is denied that this
Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has
standing to sue, nor to form contracts in their own name at the
location.
The facts as known to the Defendant:
2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered
keeper of the vehicle in question but liability is denied.
3. The car was being used on the day in question at a
popular holiday destination in Plymouth, and whilst visiting the
area the engine management light came up on the cars dashboard. I
decided to pull off the road in to the parking site mentioned in
the letter, and see what could be done if anything. As there was a
long standing (40+ years) AA membership in place, i decided to
contact them, though wasn't sure if they could even get a van in
the low ceiling parking site to help anyway.
(3:1) The car was standing in the queue, hardly moving
and overheating as the whole area was generally very busy. Once
car was in building, it was just driven to one side, with steam
coming from under the bonnet. No signal on mobile phone in there,
so no AA call, but after about five minutes, all seemed better,
and things cooled down enough to add water from the personal
drinking containers in the car. This all took about 10 minutes,
and passers-by had helped push the car to one side, to a neutral
area on the site, so hadn't even used a parking bay!
(3:2) Car was then slowly driven back out to contact
AA when signal working again and get repairs carried out, or Relay
home. Upon leaving the car park, and approaching the PDT machine
to pay, it was asked of the 2 car park employees that appeared
to be working on the machine at the entrance/exit what seems to be
wrong with the ticket machine if you have so many people queuing
around you trying to pay and the reply was a somewhat mumbled
doesn't seem to be taking payments Car was then driven away from
the site, and I proceeded to have it repaired.
(3:3) I have only just seen correspondence from B W
Legal, and the invoice from Britannia, and the Claim Form, as I
recently sold personal home (21/5/21, Sale details available)
that had been rented out for the past 9 Months or so, as i have
been traveling in motor home since retirement. All the usual
utility bills and letters were taken care of by the tenant, and i
was certainly not expecting to return to threatening letters from
debt recovery agencies, a parking charge notice and a Claim Form
to be taken to Court. Not to mention my credit history being
threatened, and put in to disrepute.
(3:4) It would seem that a A frustration of
contract has occurred due to the PDT machine not working at the
time of the incident. Unfortunately it has not been possible to
obtain a record of the functionality of the machine on that day,
as when requested from Britannia, they refused to disclose such
information.

KeithP

migmash said:

                Am going to read through "newbies" section once again. Nothing was ever said about 122 limit when it comes to actually submitting, i would never have got the rest of template on (though i know it wouldn't matter, if it was going to be left blank)

In Bargepole's 'What happens when' post linked from the second post of the NEWBIES thread it says...

...trying to fit it in the online box destroys the formatting, and makes it hard for the Judge to read.

As an aside... did you not wonder why the forum suggests a Defence template that is far far too long to fit in that box on the form?

migmash said:

                                   So when i copy and paste/scan, sign/date whatever, and then send to ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk  as advised, and also to mcol@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk to make sure they have a copy, why is the emailed copy to mcol not going to be any use/ignored? 

You appear to have presented the CCBC with three versions of your Defence - two to different email addresses (OK, they're probably identical) and a shortened version via the MCOL website.

I suspect that there might be an automated process that accepts the Defence filed via the MCOL website without any human intervention, but I really don't know if that is so.

I would suggest you phone the CCBC - number on your Claim Form - and try and ensure that they actually use a full version of your Defence. Remember most people at the CCBC are not lawyers but admin people. They will be doing what their procedures tell them to do.

migmash

          Thanks for reply KeithP, and i must admit i had no idea there was any "box" coming when i finally got to opening  the MCOL site again after a week or so, and actually clicking on the Blue button "start defence".

          This is after i notice i have about an 90 minutes to do everything, starting with me not losing it with the dried out Black ink cartridge i am suddenly finding is congealed in its setting   and not launching it through the window.

           Then "the box" telling me only 122 lines, and trying to quickly cut and cut until i decide, just put on the wording of my own, and possibly send the rest later, or by some other means . .  .  50 mins to go . .   .

             And now, about 5 minutes ago, i thought i would check status/position on the MCOL site, only to find this . .  . ?

Will that now be classed as too late? It was sent in time, with half hour to spare, and my emails all went at same time, and were responded to!

This whole thing is a ¬*("^%    nightmare . .  .

Recent Transactions for Defendant

A claim was issued against you on 25/05/2021

Your acknowledgment of service was submitted on 09/06/2021 at 21:16:05

Your acknowledgment of service was received on 10/06/2021 at 08:05:59

Your defence was submitted on 28/06/2021 at 15:25:50

Your defence was received on 28/06/2021 at 16:05:09

Your defence was rejected on 29/06/2021

Your defence was received on 29/06/2021

Claim Status

KeithP

Your Defence only becomes 'too late' if, after the deadline date, the Claimant seeks a Default Judgment before you actually file a Defence. So it looks like you are ok on that score.

Now you need to know which Defence was rejected and which Defence was subsequently received. 

I think you still need to contact the CCBC as I said earlier...

I would suggest you phone the CCBC - number on your Claim Form - and try and ensure that they actually use a full version of your Defence.

It would be nice to think that the CCBC has rejected the shortened version, but you need to know and maybe even try to persuade them to accept a good version if that's necessary.

Coupon-mad

migmash said:

Reference

Reference

!!!!!! Turpin

Defence

1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to
relief in the sum claimed, or at all. It is denied that a
contract was entered into - by conduct or otherwise - whereby it
was agreed to pay a parking charge and it is denied that this
Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has
standing to sue, nor to form contracts in their own name at the
location.
The facts as known to the Defendant:
2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered
keeper of the vehicle in question but liability is denied.
3. The car was being used on the day in question at a
popular holiday destination in Plymouth, and whilst visiting the
area the engine management light came up on the cars dashboard. I
decided to pull off the road in to the parking site mentioned in
the letter, and see what could be done if anything. As there was a
long standing (40+ years) AA membership in place, i decided to
contact them, though wasn't sure if they could even get a van in
the low ceiling parking site to help anyway.
(3:1) The car was standing in the queue, hardly moving
and overheating as the whole area was generally very busy. Once
car was in building, it was just driven to one side, with steam
coming from under the bonnet. No signal on mobile phone in there,
so no AA call, but after about five minutes, all seemed better,
and things cooled down enough to add water from the personal
drinking containers in the car. This all took about 10 minutes,
and passers-by had helped push the car to one side, to a neutral
area on the site, so hadn't even used a parking bay!
(3:2) Car was then slowly driven back out to contact
AA when signal working again and get repairs carried out, or Relay
home. Upon leaving the car park, and approaching the PDT machine
to pay, it was asked of the 2 car park employees that appeared
to be working on the machine at the entrance/exit what seems to be
wrong with the ticket machine if you have so many people queuing
around you trying to pay and the reply was a somewhat mumbled
doesn't seem to be taking payments Car was then driven away from
the site, and I proceeded to have it repaired.
(3:3) I have only just seen correspondence from B W
Legal, and the invoice from Britannia, and the Claim Form, as I
recently sold personal home (21/5/21, Sale details available)
that had been rented out for the past 9 Months or so, as i have
been traveling in motor home since retirement. All the usual
utility bills and letters were taken care of by the tenant, and i
was certainly not expecting to return to threatening letters from
debt recovery agencies, a parking charge notice and a Claim Form
to be taken to Court. Not to mention my credit history being
threatened, and put in to disrepute.
(3:4) It would seem that a A frustration of
contract has occurred due to the PDT machine not working at the
time of the incident. Unfortunately it has not been possible to
obtain a record of the functionality of the machine on that day,
as when requested from Britannia, they refused to disclose such
information.

You are now stuck with that defence and nothing more, because you didn't follow our instructions.  Didn't you wonder why we have a template defence that's so long, and stop to double check?  You don't just cut out the entire template. 

Didn't you think ''hang on, this can't be right, everyone uses that template defence''?

This is frustrating. 

Luckily your facts above in that defence are quite unique and might be enough to carry you through, if you expand with evidence at the WS stage (please read the section under the red heading in the NEWBIES thread and be properly prepared for the next forms and stages.

migmash

      Not really no, because i knew i was sending it (the full version with scanned/signed etc attachments) by email as well to the same place? Hence i sent to any others that might possibly require it also. Wasn't that the recommendation in that Newbies section, to send to ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk. Aren't they one and the same people receiving it ! If it is of no use sending it there, why are complete strangers to all of this, instructed "send to ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk"   If the box is left blank, how are you supposed to inform them of the defence, if not by emailing to the recommended  ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk. Is the idea then to leave box blank, and then direct recipient to your email sent to ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk.

      Possibly a blatant "Beware when you come to fill in the form at MCOL, as it only allows 122 sentences in the box offered" would have been very helpful. Thinking about it now . .   . why does that Newbies content, not stipulate up front, boldly, so it can be seen easily, rather than searching all over the place,   "when you come to submit template, you will find that it is too big, and therefore, leave box blank, and send your defence to   . .   .  . "

        That Newbies section, is somewhat of a mixed bag, to say the least . .  . not the easiest to decipher/navigate for the general public on here viewing, that have never done anything like this whatsoever in their lives, and probably like myself, never even knew that when you drive your tyres on to another persons land, that charges for the privilege, that in 5 or 10 minutes, you will have committed yourself to some kind of a binding contract :-(        

          If i am going to be berated for anything, i feel it only fair that i should mention the above items. To the general public arriving at this site for advice/guidance, it must be quite obvious that members here hate the old "clampers" and what they have become, this being obvious as some on here have been doing it by the looks of things, for some 10/20 years. Undoubtedly, this [Removed by Forum Team], has used his savvy, become a Solicitor, and seen the money to be made (much like the Doodle Dandies) "have you tripped over a matchstick recently, we can claim for you" and none of us intend to give him any of our money, especially regular members on here, that know the rules/reg's inside out.

RE:  You are now stuck with that defence and nothing more, because you didn't follow our instructions.  Didn't you wonder why we have a template defence that's so long, and stop to double check?  You don't just cut out the entire template. 

 

           As i knew it was a simple 5 page "copy and paste" i left myself plenty of time to do that, an hour and a half, and knew it was a matter of, back to that MCOL site from last week, and just "start defence" and in about a minute, it would be done and gone. Having recently found our printer buried in packing boxes, it was connected as per, but never envisaged useless ink cartridges. The rest is history as they say . .   . frantic deadline, and a stupid box that nothing will fit in . .  . pathetic!

           I am away anyway now to yet another Doctors appt, so i will look at . .   .

"please read the section under the red heading in the NEWBIES thread and be properly prepared for the next forms and stages"

              upon my return,

                                                   

                                                                    Many thanks all once again :-)