DVLA prosecution for car tax

k3lvc

This is my question, what determines keepership? if I dropped a non taxed vehicle on someones driveway, does it make them responsible and keeper of the vehicle? what is that law states in terms of keepership? ownership is not keepership, V5C is keepership is my understanding.

Dealer has closed his shop and long gone and I am facing all of these because of that otherwise I would have taken dealer to court as first port of call. 

That's just being silly - you agreed to buy the car, presumably you paid for it, the dealer delivered it to you - are you now going to claim it was a non-consentual 'dumping' of the car.

The car was yours and the issue comes from you a) not returning the car to the dealer before he shut up shop/disappeared and b) ignoring DVLA with your fatuous 'defence'

Just because the dealer has disappeared doesn't absolve you of all your responsibilities - the buck stops somewhere and unfortunately in this case it seems to be with you.

The_Fat_Controller

You became the owner the moment you paid for it and took delivery.

The registered keeper is the person using the vehicle (you or your wife) and that person is responsible for taxing the vehicle.

You should have become the registered keeper at the same time as you became the owner and you have retrospectively and correctly advised the DVLA that the vehicle was your responsibility from that day in Sep 2019, although the dealer should have done so.

jigershah

k3lvc said:

This is my question, what determines keepership? if I dropped a non taxed vehicle on someones driveway, does it make them responsible and keeper of the vehicle? what is that law states in terms of keepership? ownership is not keepership, V5C is keepership is my understanding.

Dealer has closed his shop and long gone and I am facing all of these because of that otherwise I would have taken dealer to court as first port of call. 

That's just being silly - you agreed to buy the car, presumably you paid for it, the dealer delivered it to you - are you now going to claim it was a non-consentual 'dumping' of the car.

The car was yours and the issue comes from you a) not returning the car to the dealer before he shut up shop/disappeared and b) ignoring DVLA with your fatuous 'defence'

Just because the dealer has disappeared doesn't absolve you of all your responsibilities - the buck stops somewhere and unfortunately in this case it seems to be with you.

I respect you are trying to help but would respect you not making any accusations or calling us silly. I only asked a question, if you dont have answer I completely respect and appreciate it. 

What we have gone through we only know. We are not people who I would judge as silly. I am just asking a question to understand because thats what I feel has happened to us. 

Yes ofcourse we have made mistakes firstly to start with trusting the dealer that he has fixed the car. 

To also confirm we have not and never ignored DVLA so not sure where you are making that judgement from. 

Anyway I appreciate your spending time and effort trying to look into it and help. Thank you for that. 

jigershah

The_Fat_Controller said:

You became the owner the moment you paid for it and took delivery.

The registered keeper is the person using the vehicle (you or your wife) and that person is responsible for taxing the vehicle.

You should have become the registered keeper at the same time as you became the owner and you have retrospectively and correctly advised the DVLA that the vehicle was your responsibility from that day in Sep 2019, although the dealer should have done so.

Thank you. we never used the car. it sat on our driveway until we took for MOT in October 2020. 
Is it not sellers responsibility to transfer the car which would have triggered the comms earlier with DVLA and ourself and we would not have reached the point where we have? 

AdrianC

jigershah said:
Is it not sellers responsibility to transfer the car which would have triggered the comms earlier with DVLA and ourself and we would not have reached the point where we have? 

Yes, it is. They didn't. Naughty dealer. Don't buy a car from them again.

DVLA suggest the new keeper contacts them to chase if a V5C hasn't been received within four weeks. You didn't do that.
You do, however, now have a V5C in your name.

It is the new keeper's legal responsibility to ensure the car is taxed or SORNed at all times. You didn't do that.
That's the bit that's come back to bite you now.

The_Fat_Controller

The seller should have notified the DVLA that you were the new keeper.

You effectively became the new keeper by default on the day the car was sold to you despite the lack of notification to the DVLA, that is why you got the green New Keeper Slip.

However, you muddied the waters but not returning the rejected car immediately and telling him not to transfer the V5 into your name.

You, as the new keeper should have taxed the car before using it, even for that short test drive after it was delivered and that is possible using the Document Reference Number on the green New Keeper Slip which you say you had.

The wording says "You, the new keeper, must ensure the vehicle is taxed before you drive it"

Tokmon

jigershah said:

The_Fat_Controller said:

The transfer should have been completed BEFORE the vehicle was even delivered to you.

Did the seller actually agree to delay doing that until you were satisfied about the repair ?

If it wasn't as described you should have just rejected immediately and demanded a refund.

There are more holes in this story than Swiss Cheese.

Car dealer and we agreed a price at condition of repair and new MOT. on the day, I was called that repair and new MOT has been done. I was in office so money was paid on phone and car delivered to my home which dealer happily did it. my wife didnt know and this happened around 8pm. When I reached home, i drove vehicle at 9pm or around and realised steering problem was not fixed so I conveyed he should not transfer the ownership. He clearly by then didnt inform DVLA about transfer of ownership so car was delivered before transfer was done clearly. 

We were conveyed everything is fixed which clearly he didnt and he also didnt transfer the vehicle in my name making me thing this is not my ownership. I never got any DVLA confirmation for all those months neither we touched the car until the time FOS conclusion came through. 

I rejected it at 4am (after lets say 7 hours) as i was stressed that we have been done in and demanded the refund immediately. This is where dealer never refunded, made all excuses but also did not transfer the car in our name either... 

Where did you drive the car considering you had no insurance? 

jigershah

Tokmon said:

jigershah said:

The_Fat_Controller said:

The transfer should have been completed BEFORE the vehicle was even delivered to you.

Did the seller actually agree to delay doing that until you were satisfied about the repair ?

If it wasn't as described you should have just rejected immediately and demanded a refund.

There are more holes in this story than Swiss Cheese.

Car dealer and we agreed a price at condition of repair and new MOT. on the day, I was called that repair and new MOT has been done. I was in office so money was paid on phone and car delivered to my home which dealer happily did it. my wife didnt know and this happened around 8pm. When I reached home, i drove vehicle at 9pm or around and realised steering problem was not fixed so I conveyed he should not transfer the ownership. He clearly by then didnt inform DVLA about transfer of ownership so car was delivered before transfer was done clearly. 

We were conveyed everything is fixed which clearly he didnt and he also didnt transfer the vehicle in my name making me thing this is not my ownership. I never got any DVLA confirmation for all those months neither we touched the car until the time FOS conclusion came through. 

I rejected it at 4am (after lets say 7 hours) as i was stressed that we have been done in and demanded the refund immediately. This is where dealer never refunded, made all excuses but also did not transfer the car in our name either... 

Where did you drive the car considering you had no insurance? 

out on my street realised as soon as I had to turn the vehicle that steering problem was not fixed so parked back. couldnt sleep, texted him 4am in morning saying not to transfer. 

With this chat, I have realised number of things I have done wrong but none had any ill intention whatsoever. For me as soon as I decided to transfer in our name, I did everything by book. Anything prior i just thought I was not keeper and dealer accepted that by not transferring and DVLA never contacted me either so I never knew I had certain obligations I was not meeting. 

cajef

jigershah said:

Tokmon said:

jigershah said:

The_Fat_Controller said:

The transfer should have been completed BEFORE the vehicle was even delivered to you.

Did the seller actually agree to delay doing that until you were satisfied about the repair ?

If it wasn't as described you should have just rejected immediately and demanded a refund.

There are more holes in this story than Swiss Cheese.

Car dealer and we agreed a price at condition of repair and new MOT. on the day, I was called that repair and new MOT has been done. I was in office so money was paid on phone and car delivered to my home which dealer happily did it. my wife didnt know and this happened around 8pm. When I reached home, i drove vehicle at 9pm or around and realised steering problem was not fixed so I conveyed he should not transfer the ownership. He clearly by then didnt inform DVLA about transfer of ownership so car was delivered before transfer was done clearly. 

We were conveyed everything is fixed which clearly he didnt and he also didnt transfer the vehicle in my name making me thing this is not my ownership. I never got any DVLA confirmation for all those months neither we touched the car until the time FOS conclusion came through. 

I rejected it at 4am (after lets say 7 hours) as i was stressed that we have been done in and demanded the refund immediately. This is where dealer never refunded, made all excuses but also did not transfer the car in our name either... 

Where did you drive the car considering you had no insurance? 

 Anything prior i just thought I was not keeper and dealer accepted that by not transferring and DVLA never contacted me either so I never knew I had certain obligations I was not meeting. 

How could the DVLA contact you if neither you or the garage informed them you were the new owner?

angrycrow

You actually committed an offence in driving the car on the road before taxing it. You should have used the green new keeper slip to tax it online before the wheels touched the public road. You then would have had the option to declare it sorn whilst it sat unused on your driveway during the dispute over rejection.

Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law.

I would suggest paying up pronto before they take you to court and the costs increase.

As a side point how would you feel if somebody messaged you about a car you had sold them at 4am. This may have been a bad way to start a dispute with the dealer. That said I suspect he always knew he was winding up the business and he never intended to pay for the steering rack.

Suggest you get it fixed and either use it or if it winds you up too much to look at it sell it on.