DVLA prosecution for car tax

jigershah

justworriedabit said:

Hi OP

From my understanding, rightly or wrongly pay up, cut your loses and stress, but your choice as you know. 

With respect, your OH being a doc and not able to get time off -  that is not the courts problem and many people do jobs where they can't get time off, afford to take time off, etc, etc and on that basis, in the scheme of things, 350 is not a lot as you know but it is the principal.

Having stated the above, you may get lucky and speak with someone that understands and appreciated what happened and may have the authority to write off the 350.  If I was in your shoes, I'd not want to pay the 350 but then would weigh up the 350 vs the stress/time/uncertainty/pressures/etc/etc.  

Good luck.

Appreciated. I am going to try exactly that. My only problem is these money is a lot given our circumstances, you will be surprised how much junior doctors get paid compared to what they do so money is a problem and hence car is also not fixed and declared off road SORNed. 

I understand but I am in rock and hard here as its a huge sun to shell out so will try and see if there is some appreciation. We havent done anything wrong deliberately to be honest and this feels too harsh on us. 

AdrianC

jigershah said:

I just checked the v5c and I could not see anywhere change of keepership on v5c but on few slips there is a date of 11 10 20 (suggesting 11th November 2020) which is around the time we accepted the keepership / requested v5c in our name.

That's when the V5C was issued, but it will say "acquired vehicle on..." on the front cover of the V5C.

Given the dealer went out of business in October 2019, there is clearly no way that you can have acquired it after that. Your dispute with the supplier cannot have happened before you acquired the vehicle. It was your legal responsibility from September 2019.

The_Fat_Controller

How you managed to take delivery of a vehicle that had neither been transferred to you as the registered keeper or taxed in your name is still a bit of a mystery.

You should not have even taken it out to check the fault had been fixed without it being taxed and insured.

As you applied for the V5 in your name with the date of acquisition of Sep 2019 that is pretty much an admission that you were therefore responsible for the tax or SORN from that date.

I think you need to resign yourself to paying the fine.

jigershah

AdrianC said:

jigershah said:

I just checked the v5c and I could not see anywhere change of keepership on v5c but on few slips there is a date of 11 10 20 (suggesting 11th November 2020) which is around the time we accepted the keepership / requested v5c in our name.

That's when the V5C was issued, but it will say "acquired vehicle on..." on the front cover of the V5C.

Given the dealer went out of business in October 2019, there is clearly no way that you can have acquired it after that. Your dispute with the supplier cannot have happened before you acquired the vehicle. It was your legal responsibility from September 2019.

Thanks Adrian, vehicle acquired date is shown as 16th Sep 2019 which is what we put as we Got the vehicle so form was misunderstood given our circumstances. 

As I am reading things, everywhere via google it says, its sellers responsibility to transfer the vehicle and seller did not do that because we refused to agree keepership. I only accepted keepership in Oct 2020 after having no choice but to do that. I never knew until then because I always thought v5c is what determines keepership. 

our mistake is putting a wrong date. 

k3lvc

jigershah said:

AdrianC said:

jigershah said:

I just checked the v5c and I could not see anywhere change of keepership on v5c but on few slips there is a date of 11 10 20 (suggesting 11th November 2020) which is around the time we accepted the keepership / requested v5c in our name.

That's when the V5C was issued, but it will say "acquired vehicle on..." on the front cover of the V5C.

Given the dealer went out of business in October 2019, there is clearly no way that you can have acquired it after that. Your dispute with the supplier cannot have happened before you acquired the vehicle. It was your legal responsibility from September 2019.

Thanks Adrian, vehicle acquired date is shown as 16th Sep 2019 which is what we put as we Got the vehicle so form was misunderstood given our circumstances. 

As I am reading things, everywhere via google it says, its sellers responsibility to transfer the vehicle and seller did not do that because we refused to agree keepership. I only accepted keepership in Oct 2020 after having no choice but to do that. I never knew until then because I always thought v5c is what determines keepership. 

our mistake is putting a wrong date. 

But you 'accepted keepership' at the point at which you collected it or you received it, not at a point a few hours later when you chose to reject it (otherwise in current circumstances there'd be loads of people driving round in cars for 14 days with no tax/insurance etc claiming that they're under 'approval' and therefore not legally theirs)

Saying you're rejecting the car doesn't not automatically transfer ownership back to the dealer and remove your responsibilities to keep it legal/safe (although you could potentially add these costs onto your claim if it ever came to court with the dealer).

IMO you've not got a leg to stand on with DVLA - you're only option is to pay up to them and avoid any further costs and then, should you choose to, take the dealer to court

The_Fat_Controller

The transfer should have been completed BEFORE the vehicle was even delivered to you.

Did the seller actually agree to delay doing that until you were satisfied about the repair ?

If it wasn't as described you should have just rejected immediately and demanded a refund.

There are more holes in this story than Swiss Cheese.

cajef

So the vehicle has been sat on your drive for a year and a half and you have never done anything about it, has it even been started, cleaned or checked to see if it  is still drivable ?

jigershah

The_Fat_Controller said:

The transfer should have been completed BEFORE the vehicle was even delivered to you.

Did the seller actually agree to delay doing that until you were satisfied about the repair ?

If it wasn't as described you should have just rejected immediately and demanded a refund.

There are more holes in this story than Swiss Cheese.

Car dealer and we agreed a price at condition of repair and new MOT. on the day, I was called that repair and new MOT has been done. I was in office so money was paid on phone and car delivered to my home which dealer happily did it. my wife didnt know and this happened around 8pm. When I reached home, i drove vehicle at 9pm or around and realised steering problem was not fixed so I conveyed he should not transfer the ownership. He clearly by then didnt inform DVLA about transfer of ownership so car was delivered before transfer was done clearly. 

We were conveyed everything is fixed which clearly he didnt and he also didnt transfer the vehicle in my name making me thing this is not my ownership. I never got any DVLA confirmation for all those months neither we touched the car until the time FOS conclusion came through. 

I rejected it at 4am (after lets say 7 hours) as i was stressed that we have been done in and demanded the refund immediately. This is where dealer never refunded, made all excuses but also did not transfer the car in our name either... 

jigershah

cajef said:

So the vehicle has been sat on your drive for a year and a half and you have never done anything about it, has it even been started, cleaned or checked to see if it  is still drivable ?

We never used that car for all that time as it was not our car we thought. i even told bank and FOS that they can keep the car as thats not our asset. in October 2020, MOT garage put a new battery, two near tyres and service to remove the rust from brake pads etc. its again back on drive way. because steering rack replacement would cost £500 is what I was told.

jigershah

k3lvc said:

jigershah said:

AdrianC said:

jigershah said:

I just checked the v5c and I could not see anywhere change of keepership on v5c but on few slips there is a date of 11 10 20 (suggesting 11th November 2020) which is around the time we accepted the keepership / requested v5c in our name.

That's when the V5C was issued, but it will say "acquired vehicle on..." on the front cover of the V5C.

Given the dealer went out of business in October 2019, there is clearly no way that you can have acquired it after that. Your dispute with the supplier cannot have happened before you acquired the vehicle. It was your legal responsibility from September 2019.

Thanks Adrian, vehicle acquired date is shown as 16th Sep 2019 which is what we put as we Got the vehicle so form was misunderstood given our circumstances. 

As I am reading things, everywhere via google it says, its sellers responsibility to transfer the vehicle and seller did not do that because we refused to agree keepership. I only accepted keepership in Oct 2020 after having no choice but to do that. I never knew until then because I always thought v5c is what determines keepership. 

our mistake is putting a wrong date. 

But you 'accepted keepership' at the point at which you collected it or you received it, not at a point a few hours later when you chose to reject it (otherwise in current circumstances there'd be loads of people driving round in cars for 14 days with no tax/insurance etc claiming that they're under 'approval' and therefore not legally theirs)

Saying you're rejecting the car doesn't not automatically transfer ownership back to the dealer and remove your responsibilities to keep it legal/safe (although you could potentially add these costs onto your claim if it ever came to court with the dealer).

IMO you've not got a leg to stand on with DVLA - you're only option is to pay up to them and avoid any further costs and then, should you choose to, take the dealer to court

This is my question, what determines keepership? if I dropped a non taxed vehicle on someones driveway, does it make them responsible and keeper of the vehicle? what is that law states in terms of keepership? ownership is not keepership, V5C is keepership is my understanding.

Dealer has closed his shop and long gone and I am facing all of these because of that otherwise I would have taken dealer to court as first port of call.