DVLA prosecution for car tax

jigershah

Dear all 

This is my first post so apologies for any mistakes firstly. 

We have a situation where DVLA enforcement team are threatening prosecution if we did not pay £350 odd as out of court settlement for car tax which they claim was our responsibility and we are disputing that it was our responsibility. 

We purchased a car from a dealer on 16th September 2019 at two conditions, steering problem fixed and a new MOT. Dealer claimed problem was fixed and MOT was done so I paid via Debit card and car was delivered to our home because it was for my wife who is a doctor and could not manage to collect it. That evening when I drove the car, immediately I realised that car steering problem was not fixed and therefore we were cheated. I texted 4am that night to dealer via whatsapp that condition is not met and therefore we want refund and we did not want to own the car and asked him specifically not to transfer the ownership in our name. 

Then there was a long battle to get our refund because dealer closed his company, did not refund, and I had to go bank who declined because they thought visa would not approve and financial ombuds also declined and around October 2020 (it took long because of Covid there were many delays with bank as well as financial ombuds) we arrived at a state of complete exhaustion having left with two options 1. to go court way and 2. to accept the car. 

I spoke to CAB and they advised I can use the green slip to transfer vehicle in my name and advised to talk to DVLA and explain. I called DVLA and they advised to fill in a form along with greenslip and send it to them. On this form there is a field which asks, do you have your v5c and if not, when did you get your car. We said we dont have v5c and we got the car on 16th september 2019 because it was delivered to us then. we did not think this was deemed to be keepership date as this is all new for us. 

Based on this form, v5c was sent to us and after 2 weeks, I declared the car SORN as it had to be fixed given the dangerous fault. 

After a few weeks, I got a letter from DVLA that I have defaulted and I should pay £350+ including fine for the time the car was not taxed. 

I explained the situation but everything was ignored. 

My wife is a doctor and she can not get out of hospital in these times to attend court and explain everything. I think DVLA enforcement team are ignoring the whole situation here and not offering us any conversation as we can not reach to anyone in DVLA enforcement team. They apparently can not talk. I think they are being unfair and ignorant that we are not keepers during that period which is evident that car dealer (who is responsible for transferring the vehicle) did not transfer the vehicle in our name until the time we accepted it and had to process in October 2020. 

Where do we stand? Its been stressful year for us given my wife's role during Covid, need for a car, having no car despite spending and me doing all the taxi work for over a year and now this is and starring at another £500 to replace steering rack etc. 

I dont know if anyone can guide. I have not gone through complaints or appeal yet and we have time until 29th April to pay or face prosecution. 

We would be extremely grateful for any help guidance please.

Warm regards
J Shah

molerat

To be honest I don't fancy your chances in court especially as DVLA have it in writing from you that you were responsible for the car from 16/9/19.  Where was the car during this dispute ?

jigershah

Hi, car was parked on our driveway but we never accepted keepership as we declined ownership right from time it got delivered (atleast within 6 hours). Since then car has been parked on our drive way. 

Even if we made an innocent mistake of entering the wrong date? we have to pay the full fine? should we not have an option to change the date instead now that we know it meant keepership? 

or alternatively pay years tax although that too is unfair because seller never tranferred the car in our name as he knew we were not accepting keepership? 

AdrianC

You SORNed the car in October 2020.
You told DVLA you had been responsible for the car since September 2019.
DVLA have said "What about those 13 months, then?"

You now have a V5C in your name. What change-of-keeper date is on it?

jigershah

thanks Adrian. We told 16th September because form said when did you get the car, we got it delivered on 16th September but we were not accepting keepership. Change of keepership would be shown as 16th September 2019 and this is where we have made a mistake because we misinterpreted the form given the ordeal we have gone through and we were just honest in answering that question because we are requesting that V5C at the back of a green slip and a form we have never had any experience before and given our mental state. 

jigershah

Sorry Adrian, my mistake, I just checked the v5c and I could not see anywhere change of keepership on v5c but on few slips there is a date of 11 10 20 (suggesting 11th November 2020) which is around the time we accepted the keepership / requested v5c in our name. if I am making a mistake please guide me where do I look at change of keepership as its not obviously coming up. 

Also to answer the query about 13 months, that the sellers responsibility isnt it? 

Grey_Critic

So where is the car now? If the dealer has shut down and is not acknowledging your attempts at communication nor refunding your money then you must, however reluctant own the vehicle. You can sue the dealer (no idea if he is still in business or has any money) or cut your losses and get the vehicle fixed. Stuck in your driveway will ony see it depreciate and solve nothing. Basically you have let the thing drag on.

The_Fat_Controller

A dealer would normally transfer the vehicle to you as keeper electronically the day he delivered it.

If you paid for the car and accepted delivery in Sept 2019 you are responsible for the tax from that date.

You should have rejected the car immediately if it was not in the state agreed and returned it to the dealer.

What documents did you receive in Sep 2019, either from the dealer or the DVLA ?

What is this mysterious "green slip" ? 

It all sounds a bit dodgy to be honest.

You had at least 5 months prior to the Covid pandemic to sort it all out.

justworriedabit

Hi OP

From my understanding, rightly or wrongly pay up, cut your loses and stress, but your choice as you know. 

With respect, your OH being a doc and not able to get time off -  that is not the courts problem and many people do jobs where they can't get time off, afford to take time off, etc, etc and on that basis, in the scheme of things, 350 is not a lot as you know but it is the principal.

Having stated the above, you may get lucky and speak with someone that understands and appreciated what happened and may have the authority to write off the 350.  If I was in your shoes, I'd not want to pay the 350 but then would weigh up the 350 vs the stress/time/uncertainty/pressures/etc/etc.  

Good luck.

jigershah

Grey_Critic said:

So where is the car now? If the dealer has shut down and is not acknowledging your attempts at communication nor refunding your money then you must, however reluctant own the vehicle. You can sue the dealer (no idea if he is still in business or has any money) or cut your losses and get the vehicle fixed. Stuck in your driveway will ony see it depreciate and solve nothing. Basically you have let the thing drag on.

Car is on our drive way and I have transfferred into our name in Nov 2020 after doing everything including bank claim and financial ombuds. Dealer has shut down long ago in October 2019 immediately after delivering the car. 

I was told by CAB if dealer has shut down his company, i can go to court but to enforce etc it will only incur more costs without any guaranteed results so after trying through bank and financial ombuds who also did not support because they knew dealer has shut down, we were left with one option which is to transfer it in our name and move on which is what we did but sadly in quest of being honest, we put a date which now in hindsight was a wrong date. we should have put date when we initiate the v5c transfer. 

Agree it has dragged but bank and Financial ombuds due to covid kicking in took months and months... 

jigershah

The_Fat_Controller said:

A dealer would normally transfer the vehicle to you as keeper electronically the day he delivered it.

If you paid for the car and accepted delivery in Sept 2019 you are responsible for the tax from that date.

You should have rejected the car immediately if it was not in the state agreed and returned it to the dealer.

What documents did you receive in Sep 2019, either from the dealer or the DVLA ?

What is this mysterious "green slip" ? 

It all sounds a bit dodgy to be honest.

You had at least 5 months prior to the Covid pandemic to sort it all out.

I paid but within 6 hours I rejected to accept the car and its keepership by sending a text clearing that fault is not fixed and therefore we want refund and v5c should not be transferred in our name. This is the reason v5c was never transferred in our name although dealer never did anything to fix and car sat in our driveway while dispute dragged on. after a few weeks I got an email from dealer saying they have shut down. this is where I did not know what to do, went to cab, couple of lawyers for free debono advise, guided towards bank claim, bank declined, went to financial ombuds, covid kicks in, everything delayed finally in august september was final decision from financial ombuds that bank is not wrong etc so back to sqaure one. 

I never recieved any documents from DVLA between September 2019 and Nov 2020 (when we got our new v5c). DVLA did not know we existed in this car sense until we informed DVLA about situation via phone and understand process of using green slip to transfer vehicle in our name. 

Green slip is section 10 which as new keeper of vehicle was given with car. 

Nothing is dodgy here except for someone fighting for their consumer rights and failing miserably because of a rogue dealer and fine prints in banks terms and conditions. 

My wife is a doctor and i am a professional and we are law abiding citizens. 

5 months lost because I tried to resolve this amicably with dealer, then guidance took time to figure out where I stand as not something I have faced before and then pointed to bank which has its own process time and further financial ombuds too. 

Yes its been frustrating and we lost a lot over and above everything but I dont feel I am wrong but I am happy to be corrected.