BP forecourt PCN

paulb76

@Coupon-mad
I received the sar info back. 
I asked for a copy of the contract with the landowner allowing them to pursue claims with the data subject and they didnt send that. Probably because they do not have one.
I have also noted that the photographs are time stamped with the first and last supplied being slightly less than 10 minutes.
Is this not within a grace period? I read that if not specifically stated that there isnt one on the sign it should be taken as a 10 minute period applies.
They have added 70 quid on anyway so I assume this will turn into an unjust penalty amount case regardless of anything else, including not even breaching their own terms!

Umkomaas

I asked for a copy of the contract with the landowner allowing them to pursue claims with the data subject and they didnt send that.

Probably because there is no legal requirement on them to produce anything that doesn't contain your name, or the VRM of your vehicle.  Don't start chasing shadows.

Is this not within a grace period? I read that if not specifically stated that there isnt one on the sign it should be taken as a 10 minute period applies.

Where did you read that?

paulb76

Umkomaas said:

I asked for a copy of the contract with the landowner allowing them to pursue claims with the data subject and they didnt send that.

Probably because there is no legal requirement on them to produce anything that doesn't contain your name, or the VRM of your vehicle.  Don't start chasing shadows.

Is this not within a grace period? I read that if not specifically stated that there isnt one on the sign it should be taken as a 10 minute period applies.

Where did you read that?

I just meant I asked for it. Not related to data protection.
And I read it within the ipc code of conduct.
It states.. 
before a parking charge is issued motorists must be allowed a grace period save and except when 13.3 is applicable. "a grace period is a ten minute period at the end of the permitted period of parking"
13.3 just says you don't need one if the permitted period of parking is less than an hour but even then the signage must make it clear there isnt one. What I am saying is if the entire period in question is less than ten minutes then surely the whole period falls within a time to find and read any conditions, deciding then to leave, and also ten minutes on top of agreed parking period. 

paulb76

So if the terms were not accepted and thus permitted parking time was 0 the grace period period should be 10 minutes after 0.
If the motorist chooses not to read signs then they can be deemed to have accepted terms immediately.
The grace period must then by default be 10 minutes from accepting any terms. 

Jenni_D

paulb76 said:

So if the terms were not accepted and thus permitted parking time was 0 the grace period period should be 10 minutes after 0.
If the motorist chooses not to read signs then they can be deemed to have accepted terms immediately.
The grace period must then by default be 10 minutes from accepting any terms. 

It doesn't work like that. The grace period is intended to allow the driver to find a parking space, park, read the terms, decide if they wish to stay, and leave if they don't.

Is 10 minutes reasonable? Probably no ... even if the terms are readable it probably take almost 4 minutes to fully read a sign ... but that's where the CoP stands.

paulb76

Jenni_D said:

paulb76 said:

So if the terms were not accepted and thus permitted parking time was 0 the grace period period should be 10 minutes after 0.
If the motorist chooses not to read signs then they can be deemed to have accepted terms immediately.
The grace period must then by default be 10 minutes from accepting any terms. 

It doesn't work like that. The grace period is intended to allow the driver to find a parking space, park, read the terms, decide if they wish to stay, and leave if they don't.

Is 10 minutes reasonable? Probably no ... even if the terms are readable it probably take almost 4 minutes to fully read a sign ... but that's where the CoP stands.

That's what I'm saying though in this case Jenni. 
If the driver found a space, parked, read the terms and decided not to stay all within 10 minutes then how can they have given a grace period of 10 minutes in any respect. 

Redx

That quote about clause 13 looks like a BPA CoP clause , not an IPC CoP clause

PCM UK are IPC members , so check again

Jenni_D

We may be talking at cross-purposes. I responded to your specific comment that I put in bold. That comment seemed to say that the 10 mins grace period started after the driver had accepted the terms; that is not the case. The grace period starts after the driver has first parked up (or in the case of ANPR monitoring, on entry to the car park ... yes, we know this viewpoint is wrong but that's the way the PPCs look at it). If that's what you were meaning - fine. That's not how I read it.  

If they've issued a PCN for non-payment yet the observed time is less than 10 minutes then grace period would be a valid defence; if it's more than 10 minutes then things become more woolly.

paulb76

Redx said:

That quote about clause 13 looks like a BPA CoP clause , not an IPC CoP clause

PCM UK are IPC members , so check again

Definitely ipc. Just pulled it from there to quote. 

Redx

I didn't think it's clause 13 in the IPC CoP  , but it's now clause 13 in both , lol. 😋😋👍👍