BP forecourt PCN

paulb76

MothballsWallet said:

paulb76 said:

Fruitcake said:

paulb76 said:

SayNoToPCN said:

As above

DO they comply with POFA2012 to hold the keeper liable? You need a yes or no here, and yif you are unsure, then check the NtK against the POFA2012, schedule 4, para 9 online. 

i have looked through pofa para 9 and the notice and i think they do. not an expert though so i tried to post a pic but not sure its clear enough to read.

https://i.postimg.cc/25KF1RJr/pcn-front.jpg

I can't get that image to open, but I think it might be a problem with the Postimages website as I can't get my own photos to open on that site at the moment.

I posted the front page image on another post a couple of comments back as it was easier than trying to sort the link. Compliant?
I have also noticed the intended ' 60 quid add on' 
Looking at the IPC signage regulations is laughable.
'must try to adhere'  required to 'keep to the spirit of the guidance'  just a couple of examples of a strictly regulated business.

I have just pulled a picture from their 'evidence' of a sign that I assume is somewhere on the site. On a wall somewhere.
And what a load of nonsense it is anyway.
'Parking permitted for patrons whilst on the premises at all times' You don't have to buy anything to be a patron of somewhere.

Also it states 'drivers who leave their vehicles unattended at any time either before or after using the garage'
How on earth are they enforcing leaving a vehicle at any point.
checking the definition of unattended for purposes of law it means stationary and no one with it.
Their 'evidence' also shows that people were in (attendance) in the vehicle at all times it was there, as they indeed were. So was the vehicle unattended with no driver but multiple passengers?

'if unsure please seek further advice or refrain from parking'
Well that's going to get you a pcn isn't it when you leave the car unattended at any time to read the sign? Jokers.
 
It also says signs should identify themselves as 'the creditor' have they done this? I cant see that. Maybe they purposefully printed it in a 1mm white font on white background whilst following guidelines to 'try and do it'

And a £1 'admin fee' if you want to call them. These people really are criminals acting within the law and it needs to be dealt with immediately.

@paulb76 I was just wondering how you were getting on with your council enquiry?

Also, iirc, the sign in your photo is more than 6 feet (1.83 metres) off the ground on the shop building.

Hi @MothballsWallet
I enquired a good couple of weeks back about domestic rate payer and still have not had a reply from the council.
It says replies can take up to ten days so if i don't hear back after the bank hol I will chase for a response.
I am not sure of the height of the sign. I do not think that one was overly high but I do know it was nowhere near the vehicle!
I have noted a few other things since last posting. 'drivers who leave their vehicles unattended at any time'
The vehicle was not left unattended. Passengers were in the vehicle at all times even if the driver got out?
And also this particular garage has a retail restaurant inside and amazon lockers outside. So how can they claim its only for patrons of the BP garage? If you pick up a parcel you are not a patron of the garage?
In reality you do not have to buy anything from a shop to be a patron either. And unless the (made up) contract states use of the car park is for customers spending a certain or minimum amount, that's irrelevant anyway.

KeithP

paulb76 said:

Hi @MothballsWallet
I enquired a good couple of weeks back about domestic rate payer and still have not had a reply from the council.

You should've been asking who pays the Non-Domestic Rates on the property.

KeithP

MothballsWallet said:

Are you a Coventry resident? If so, you could try emailing the council business rates team on businessrates@coventry.gov.uk and asking who pays the non-domestic (business) rates for that site - Coventry City Council doesn't list that info in a spreadsheet that's publically viewable from what I can find out.

What about this...
www.coventry.gov.uk/downloads/file/25291/non_domestic_rates_-_full_rating_list_from_voa

OK, it's a few years old but maybe useful.

Edited to add: forget that list. It does not show the rate payer.

paulb76

D_P_Dance said:

It is also extremely wordy, with some very  small print, how high is it?  Read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading/p1

Have you complained to your MP? 

Hi @D_P_Dance  I think @Coupon-mad mentioned MPs initially.
I did write to the MP yes. And I had quite a nice genuine reply.
They asked me if I would like them to write to the company.
And this gave me some options that I'm happy to take advice on. 
Do I ask her to write to the Parking company, The Business operator, or bp? (although its bp in name but like a franchise, hence the business operator) I have not yet confirmed land owner as awaiting definitive details on that one. It could be the operator but not 100% sure.
I am thinking that the parking companies have about as much respect for MP's as they do any other people so this wouldn't be of much use?
I am running in circles a bit with bp as they initially told me they do not permit parking charges at their sites and to call if there has been a mistake. Then when I called, they said it wasn't a bp run by bp.
When I then brought up the point on another occasion, that its still bp's name and logo and their reputation, they again told me that they do not permit parking charges and to call if there has been a mistake, taking me full circle.
Cheers.

paulb76

KeithP said:

MothballsWallet said:

Are you a Coventry resident? If so, you could try emailing the council business rates team on businessrates@coventry.gov.uk and asking who pays the non-domestic (business) rates for that site - Coventry City Council doesn't list that info in a spreadsheet that's publically viewable from what I can find out.

What about this...
www.coventry.gov.uk/downloads/file/25291/non_domestic_rates_-_full_rating_list_from_voa

OK, it's a few years old but maybe useful.

I think I probably did ask about non domestic rate payer in the email.
thanks for that list. I did just have a look through and couldn't see anything listed for their address.

KeithP

paulb76 said:

KeithP said:

MothballsWallet said:

Are you a Coventry resident? If so, you could try emailing the council business rates team on businessrates@coventry.gov.uk and asking who pays the non-domestic (business) rates for that site - Coventry City Council doesn't list that info in a spreadsheet that's publically viewable from what I can find out.

What about this...
www.coventry.gov.uk/downloads/file/25291/non_domestic_rates_-_full_rating_list_from_voa

OK, it's a few years old but maybe useful.

I think I probably did ask about non domestic rate payer in the email.
thanks for that list. I did just have a look through and couldn't see anything listed for their address.

That list I have shown you is useless for your purpose - no landholder's names are shown.
Sorry to have misled you.

D_P_Dance

I would ask her to write to the PPC, Trdaing Standards, and the MP in which the car park is located.j

MothballsWallet

paulb76 said:

MothballsWallet said:

paulb76 said:

Fruitcake said:

paulb76 said:

SayNoToPCN said:

As above

DO they comply with POFA2012 to hold the keeper liable? You need a yes or no here, and yif you are unsure, then check the NtK against the POFA2012, schedule 4, para 9 online. 

i have looked through pofa para 9 and the notice and i think they do. not an expert though so i tried to post a pic but not sure its clear enough to read.

https://i.postimg.cc/25KF1RJr/pcn-front.jpg

I can't get that image to open, but I think it might be a problem with the Postimages website as I can't get my own photos to open on that site at the moment.

I posted the front page image on another post a couple of comments back as it was easier than trying to sort the link. Compliant?
I have also noticed the intended ' 60 quid add on' 
Looking at the IPC signage regulations is laughable.
'must try to adhere'  required to 'keep to the spirit of the guidance'  just a couple of examples of a strictly regulated business.

I have just pulled a picture from their 'evidence' of a sign that I assume is somewhere on the site. On a wall somewhere.
And what a load of nonsense it is anyway.
'Parking permitted for patrons whilst on the premises at all times' You don't have to buy anything to be a patron of somewhere.

Also it states 'drivers who leave their vehicles unattended at any time either before or after using the garage'
How on earth are they enforcing leaving a vehicle at any point.
checking the definition of unattended for purposes of law it means stationary and no one with it.
Their 'evidence' also shows that people were in (attendance) in the vehicle at all times it was there, as they indeed were. So was the vehicle unattended with no driver but multiple passengers?

'if unsure please seek further advice or refrain from parking'
Well that's going to get you a pcn isn't it when you leave the car unattended at any time to read the sign? Jokers.
 
It also says signs should identify themselves as 'the creditor' have they done this? I cant see that. Maybe they purposefully printed it in a 1mm white font on white background whilst following guidelines to 'try and do it'

And a £1 'admin fee' if you want to call them. These people really are criminals acting within the law and it needs to be dealt with immediately.

@paulb76 I was just wondering how you were getting on with your council enquiry?

Also, iirc, the sign in your photo is more than 6 feet (1.83 metres) off the ground on the shop building.

Hi @MothballsWallet
I enquired a good couple of weeks back about domestic rate payer and still have not had a reply from the council.
It says replies can take up to ten days so if i don't hear back after the bank hol I will chase for a response.
I am not sure of the height of the sign. I do not think that one was overly high but I do know it was nowhere near the vehicle!
I have noted a few other things since last posting. 'drivers who leave their vehicles unattended at any time'
The vehicle was not left unattended. Passengers were in the vehicle at all times even if the driver got out?
And also this particular garage has a retail restaurant inside and amazon lockers outside. So how can they claim its only for patrons of the BP garage? If you pick up a parcel you are not a patron of the garage?
In reality you do not have to buy anything from a shop to be a patron either. And unless the (made up) contract states use of the car park is for customers spending a certain or minimum amount, that's irrelevant anyway.

The last time I was in the shop there, the tables and chairs had been taken out and replaced with more shelving, so it's takeaway only now - like you said, it used to be takeaway and sit down. (It also used to be a M&S Simply Food before the one opened in Warwickshire Retail Park, but M&S still lists it as a store on their website!)

MothballsWallet

@paulb76 You might also find them being slow because of the pandemic and the local election stuff for the last couple of weeks, they could be obeying the purdah rules.

MothballsWallet

Just an update as I happened to go to this location today for the cash machine and a look in the shop: @paulb76's photo of the sign is taken from the side of the shop facing the McDonalds. It's fitted about 6 feet up from the road surface: there's a narrow pavement along the side (now covered by the gas bottle rack and Amazon locker), which is about 4 inches deep from my reckoning.

I was going to get a photo but it was a bit too busy with vehicles.