BP forecourt PCN

paulb76

Coupon-mad said:

No, it says telephone PAYMENTS (by victims silly enough to PAY them) have £1 added.  That's illegal.

Its proving that this company get a lot more wrong then they do right!
Anyway, I am going to attempt a more then irate complaint to the landowner/retailer.
Is it ok to just give name and address of the keeper telling them that the alleged breaches did not even happen!
At a guess I think they will ask for proof or evidence I used the shop, even though there is no requirement to purchase for parking. And bearing in mind nothing was bought in the shop as the car was parked and then left within about 4 minutes! 
maybe I should put in stuff like that to circumvent them requesting it?

Coupon-mad

If it was parked and left within 4 minutes I assume there is a rational explanation, like you had no money on you.  But you sometimes shop there and will never return after this, blah blah...

D_P_Dance

Report these telephone charges to Trading Standards.  I was surcharged by a hotel in Blackpool, reported it, and received a refund and a profuse apology.

MothballsWallet

paulb76 said:

Fruitcake said:

Where did this occur? We see a few petrol station cases here so it is possible this site has cropped up before. 

Have the scammers provided any proof that someone left the site? "Leaving site" is very difficult for scammers to prove, so you shouldn't go round telling the world whether anyone did or didn't do that.
Is the site boundary defined by description or by a map on signage? If not, the scammers will have great difficulty convincing a judge that this occurred. How is a motorist to know when they have left a specific site if it has not been defined in some way?

A landowner cancellation is always the best option so you could ask the council who pays the non-domestic business rates to see if that helps. Some councils have this information on a spread sheet you can access from their website.
If it gets to court then you can pay a few quid to get a copy of the Land Registry entry.

You can also check the council planning department to see if advertising consent for the signs has been approved. It's not a game changer but it is always worth having in the back pocket if there is none. 
Not having consent is a criminal offence but only the council can pursue it.

Complain to your MP.

Contact local and national press to warn others about this unregulated scam in general, and this scam site in particular.

Get as many pics of the site and signage as possible that will help your case if this goes to court.

Other than that, re-read the NEWBIES so you know what to do next if/when the initial appeal is rejected.

It is BP rugby service station on Willenhall lane. Binley Coventry. 
BP have had a complaint and they assured me that BP do not charge for parking, unfortunately BP garages that are not owned by BP might. How's that for a corker.
They also told me the site is owned by motorfuel group and a quick google search of them does not bode well.
I shall complain to the MP. My question on that is to the MP of the area where the site is or my MP where I live? Or both? I live the other side of the city.
My other problem is that the keeper (who was not driving) is probably the worst type of person for dealing with the issue and will likely have a meltdown at the thought of court hearings even though I will deal with everything.
I will get onto the other stuff concerning permissions too.
Thanks

I know that BP service station quite well - I live in that area.

Complain to your MP if a different constituency from the location (which is in Coventry South, MP is Zarah Sultana) and ask them to pass on to Ms Sultana.

The site has also had MRH referenced on receipts as well as MFG (when I've used the shop, the receipt has said MFG and the bank statement said MRH, or the other way round).

paulb76

MothballsWallet said:

paulb76 said:

Fruitcake said:

Where did this occur? We see a few petrol station cases here so it is possible this site has cropped up before. 

Have the scammers provided any proof that someone left the site? "Leaving site" is very difficult for scammers to prove, so you shouldn't go round telling the world whether anyone did or didn't do that.
Is the site boundary defined by description or by a map on signage? If not, the scammers will have great difficulty convincing a judge that this occurred. How is a motorist to know when they have left a specific site if it has not been defined in some way?

A landowner cancellation is always the best option so you could ask the council who pays the non-domestic business rates to see if that helps. Some councils have this information on a spread sheet you can access from their website.
If it gets to court then you can pay a few quid to get a copy of the Land Registry entry.

You can also check the council planning department to see if advertising consent for the signs has been approved. It's not a game changer but it is always worth having in the back pocket if there is none. 
Not having consent is a criminal offence but only the council can pursue it.

Complain to your MP.

Contact local and national press to warn others about this unregulated scam in general, and this scam site in particular.

Get as many pics of the site and signage as possible that will help your case if this goes to court.

Other than that, re-read the NEWBIES so you know what to do next if/when the initial appeal is rejected.

It is BP rugby service station on Willenhall lane. Binley Coventry. 
BP have had a complaint and they assured me that BP do not charge for parking, unfortunately BP garages that are not owned by BP might. How's that for a corker.
They also told me the site is owned by motorfuel group and a quick google search of them does not bode well.
I shall complain to the MP. My question on that is to the MP of the area where the site is or my MP where I live? Or both? I live the other side of the city.
My other problem is that the keeper (who was not driving) is probably the worst type of person for dealing with the issue and will likely have a meltdown at the thought of court hearings even though I will deal with everything.
I will get onto the other stuff concerning permissions too.
Thanks

I know that BP service station quite well - I live in that area.

Complain to your MP if a different constituency from the location (which is in Coventry South, MP is Zarah Sultana) and ask them to pass on to Ms Sultana.

The site has also had MRH referenced on receipts as well as MFG (when I've used the shop, the receipt has said MFG and the bank statement said MRH, or the other way round).

I have done so already. I shall also be passing on to press and reporting to trading standards and BP.
The sites that knowingly use these cowboys need to take responsibility.
It makes me sick that they hide behind the 'external parking contract' which has nothing to do with them.
The new bill needs severe consequences for the companies that use them as well as as the parking scammers themselves.

MothballsWallet

@paulb76 Have you tried finding out the landowner for the site yet?

Are you a Coventry resident? If so, you could try emailing the council business rates team on businessrates@coventry.gov.uk and asking who pays the non-domestic (business) rates for that site - Coventry City Council doesn't list that info in a spreadsheet that's publically viewable from what I can find out.

If you're not a Coventry resident, I can help you find it out (just in case they restrict this information to residents only).

paulb76

MothballsWallet said:

@paulb76 Have you tried finding out the landowner for the site yet?

Are you a Coventry resident? If so, you could try emailing the council business rates team on businessrates@coventry.gov.uk and asking who pays the non-domestic (business) rates for that site - Coventry City Council doesn't list that info in a spreadsheet that's publically viewable from what I can find out.

If you're not a Coventry resident, I can help you find it out (just in case they restrict this information to residents only).

Thanks. I am Coventry so I will email them now and ask.
I suspect it might be the less than glowing MFG as mentioned above but we shall see.
Will update on that when they respond.

MothballsWallet

@paulb76 No problem - if you email them, you also have a written record for later.

MothballsWallet

paulb76 said:

Fruitcake said:

paulb76 said:

SayNoToPCN said:

As above

DO they comply with POFA2012 to hold the keeper liable? You need a yes or no here, and yif you are unsure, then check the NtK against the POFA2012, schedule 4, para 9 online. 

i have looked through pofa para 9 and the notice and i think they do. not an expert though so i tried to post a pic but not sure its clear enough to read.

https://i.postimg.cc/25KF1RJr/pcn-front.jpg

I can't get that image to open, but I think it might be a problem with the Postimages website as I can't get my own photos to open on that site at the moment.

I posted the front page image on another post a couple of comments back as it was easier than trying to sort the link. Compliant?
I have also noticed the intended ' 60 quid add on' 
Looking at the IPC signage regulations is laughable.
'must try to adhere'  required to 'keep to the spirit of the guidance'  just a couple of examples of a strictly regulated business.

I have just pulled a picture from their 'evidence' of a sign that I assume is somewhere on the site. On a wall somewhere.
And what a load of nonsense it is anyway.
'Parking permitted for patrons whilst on the premises at all times' You don't have to buy anything to be a patron of somewhere.

Also it states 'drivers who leave their vehicles unattended at any time either before or after using the garage'
How on earth are they enforcing leaving a vehicle at any point.
checking the definition of unattended for purposes of law it means stationary and no one with it.
Their 'evidence' also shows that people were in (attendance) in the vehicle at all times it was there, as they indeed were. So was the vehicle unattended with no driver but multiple passengers?

'if unsure please seek further advice or refrain from parking'
Well that's going to get you a pcn isn't it when you leave the car unattended at any time to read the sign? Jokers.
 
It also says signs should identify themselves as 'the creditor' have they done this? I cant see that. Maybe they purposefully printed it in a 1mm white font on white background whilst following guidelines to 'try and do it'

And a £1 'admin fee' if you want to call them. These people really are criminals acting within the law and it needs to be dealt with immediately.

@paulb76 I was just wondering how you were getting on with your council enquiry?

Also, iirc, the sign in your photo is more than 6 feet (1.83 metres) off the ground on the shop building.

D_P_Dance

It is also extremely wordy, with some very  small print, how high is it?  Read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading/p1

Have you complained to your MP?