Divorce and share of wealth.

strawb_shortcake

burlingtonfl6 said:

annabanana82 said:

justworriedabit said:

burlingtonfl6 said:

gettingtheresometime said:

burlingtonfl6 said:

swingaloo2 said:

His moral character has no bearing on this nor does the fact that his wife is a 'cheat'. If she thought your friend was as nice and loving as you say then why did she cheat. Clearly to give up her life with this 'nice' man she must have been unhappy and no one, friends or family, actually know what happens inside a marriage. It does not matter who was right and who was wrong the divorce will still have to be fair to both sides.

You do know people cheat even though they have a loving a nice spouse, don't you? 

Yes that's true but no one really knows what goes on inside a marriage apart from the parties concerned.

The more I think about it what a clueless thing of the poster to state.
How much you love someone and how nice you are to them means nothing if they're going to cheat 

Thanks.
The bottom line is even his wife has not claimed any nastiness/etc by her husband hence the clear support from the wife's parents/family and the wife's best friend. It could not be a clearer case of a good husband being cheated on for no real, valid reason other than his wife seeing what sadly too many people see these days is that the grass is greener on the other side,

Is there ever a real and valid reason for cheating on someone? 
Whatever anyone else sees she had her reasons for cheating, perhaps she had post natal depression and she just wanted someone to pay her attention, or to see her as someone other than Mum?
I think you deleted a comment about her low paid but magnanimous parents taking his side and not talking to her at the moment along with her best friend, no doubt she's hurting too now and her support network has gone, assuming it was there to start with? Maybe that had something to do with it?
Or maybe she just wanted to give a family friend something else to talk about on the internet?

Just so we are clear are you saying there is never a valid reason for cheating......because you follow that statement by throwing a few excuses into the argument.

There was a question mark, it was a comment to the OP that had stated there wasn't a clear and valid reason for her to cheat as if to say that there may well be times where she could see a clear and valid reason as to why cheating could be justified. 
I just put forward some suggestions that the OP or anyone else might not be aware of that could prompt someone to seek affection elsewhere in response to the OP saying she had no reason to cheat. 

Relationships and people are complex, and I don't think anyone can categorically say anyone else's relationship is or was perfect.

Pollycat

justworriedabit said:

A bit more on this and anyone worried about gifts made to them only after marriage, inheritance
etc, worth a read,
https://mensrightsdivorcelaw.com/blog/gifts-from-parents-divorce/#:~:text=In many cases, gifts from,property of the recipient spouse.&text=Gifts received prior to the date of marriage

Does the US state of New Jersey laws apply in the UK?

I think your friend would be better to rely on proper legal advice than a Google search result that is not relevant to the country he resides in.

comeandgo

justworriedabit said:

74jax said:

Pollycat said:

justworriedabit said:

The reason why the money was given by the parents of our friend to their son was on the basis, just in case things went wrong as sadly they do in many relationships. Fair enought if it was ten/20 years afterwards but not just a couple of years down the road 

anyway the judges will decide and we all know our friend will have to accept the outcome through no fault of his own.

Pretty dim reasoning there by your friend's parents.

They would have been better hanging on to the money and waiting to see how the marriage went.

In the current situation you describe, there's an unnecessary £100k that is potentially in the marriage pot to be divvied up.

I'm surprised you didn't point out their flawed reasoning at the time of the gift.

If that was the reason for the gift to the son, it would have been declared at the time of purchase. Can they go back to the solicitors to see what was in the notes for the reason of the gift to go towards the deposit. It has to be recorded. 
If the notes say - gift to son and daughter in law for deposit of house then obviously there's problems BUT if as you say, that was the reason, as a parent I'd have made damn sure it was recorded as such. 

EDIT oops sorry quoted wrong bit..... 🤔 

A bit more on this and anyone worried about gifts made to them only after marriage, inheritance
etc, worth a read,
https://mensrightsdivorcelaw.com/blog/gifts-from-parents-divorce/#:~:text=In many cases, gifts from,property of the recipient spouse.&text=Gifts received prior to the date of marriage

Well, are your friends based in America?

74jax

justworriedabit said:

74jax said:

justworriedabit said:

74jax said:

Pollycat said:

justworriedabit said:

The reason why the money was given by the parents of our friend to their son was on the basis, just in case things went wrong as sadly they do in many relationships. Fair enought if it was ten/20 years afterwards but not just a couple of years down the road 

anyway the judges will decide and we all know our friend will have to accept the outcome through no fault of his own.

Pretty dim reasoning there by your friend's parents.

They would have been better hanging on to the money and waiting to see how the marriage went.

In the current situation you describe, there's an unnecessary £100k that is potentially in the marriage pot to be divvied up.

I'm surprised you didn't point out their flawed reasoning at the time of the gift.

If that was the reason for the gift to the son, it would have been declared at the time of purchase. Can they go back to the solicitors to see what was in the notes for the reason of the gift to go towards the deposit. It has to be recorded. 
If the notes say - gift to son and daughter in law for deposit of house then obviously there's problems BUT if as you say, that was the reason, as a parent I'd have made damn sure it was recorded as such. 

EDIT oops sorry quoted wrong bit..... 🤔 

Morning 74ajax
As you will be aware I'm posting on behalf of a friend. They have not asked us to post but I am seeking help
in this very distressful situation for him. I do not know the full in and out of the wealth. I do recall the mum saying,
talking about the gift that it was given to their son at the same time they bought this house. From memory, this was done in
order to help a better deal mortgage wise I think as a bigger deposit meant a better deal and the lenders wanted to see evidence where the money was coming from. 
As another poster said earlier in the thread, the lawyers will have a better idea but posts like yours and others have helped, My husband will have a quick chat with him over the weekend as they are very close. As another said, think about the worse case scenario and hope it's better than that. Reading you post has made me confident thinking back that his gift from his parents may be 100% secure as they have been married for a lot less than ten years but we will see.
I urge anyone going into a partnership/marriage to draw up a pre-nup and if one side is not happy, then they are not for you. Sure, as the year turns into 5 and 5 into 10 ans so on the pre-nup may not carry as much weight, but it is worth considering.

Another point, like us, even their current accounts are joint as our friend wanted his wife to have full access to money. 
He is a really nice, lovely man that was cheated on and he forgave her and this again. The only credit I can give his wife is that she is not lying atm and will own up to the cheating on the divorce papers.  I always thought he was too nice for her as did his parents. He has massive support and important support from his wifes side of the family and her best friend. He is a broken man but  his parents and my husband have pushed him back into work as if he stayed at home it would not help.
Some people will cheat for the sake of cheating and some never get found out but some do. Thanks for your help.

I come from an Estate Agent background, and then New Build/Construction.  So I know any deposit has be accounted for.  
Even if it's a quick chat that was had with the solicitor at the time 'I see there's a gift here for the deposit, what is the reason for this'. And if the passing reply was 'It's for my Son to help with the purchase but to also safegurd his future if it all goes t@ts up', that will have been recorded in file notes.  
Honestly, if they haven't already, it is really worth getting the solicitor to hunt out the file from when the house was purchased.  I'd even ask the mortgage company for their records too.  

I have a pre-nup, we knew at the time it wasn't legally binding but the hubby was keen so we had it done.  I'm not sure I'd recommend or not recommend one, seeing as it can be completely ignored, but I think the point here is the PARENTS should have done something more clearer in their gift.  I'm considering several options of gifting my DD some money for a house but it wouldn't simple be given to her as a deposit.  I honestly think if the parents of your friend are so sure it was under the circumstances you mention, it will have been recorded somewhere.  They just need to dig it out.

Thank you again. I think my husband will have a chat with the parents over the weekend and then his friend and hopefully it will be detailed as I said earlier.  IMO people/parents/etc when larger gifts are made they will be recorded and often to their child only espcially if they are married not too long ago.recently. Sadly, gifts to your loved one before marriage then becomes part of the easte when you marry but you give good advice so thanks again, appreciated.
Btw, are pre-nups leagally binding now in England and have they been put to the test in your experience. Thanks again

Nope, not legally binding.  Might not even be taken into account.  
We're still married so no never put to the test :-) , however we did have a clause in it that after 5 (or maybe 6 years) the pre-nup became invalid anyway, so as we are now beyond that it wouldn't come into play anyway.  

gettingtheresometime

burlingtonfl6 said:

JamoLew said:

burlingtonfl6 said:

JamoLew said:

probably 50/50 (although the 100k gift from the parents "may" be in question)

he was happy to accept and support her lifestyle choice for 5-6 years and make sacrifices to raise their child

there's a lot of he and she in there - as a married couple it is THEIRS - savings, the house, the pension - the lot

I dont have much sympathy for "money grabbing" but this I see as her right

Not much of a sacrifice.....she wasn't doing anything
OP, tell him to brace for the worst because she will have the full weight of the system behind her.

I think you will find that a lot of (most) women and hopefully men would disagree with you.

Staying at home (being expected to) to raise children results in great sacrifices to careers

No - I'm not a woman, or a feminist, just a man who appreciates the sacrifices that my wife made to her life and career to raise our child

If you read the comment I said she wasn't doing anything, as in before she got pregnant.
I've made my feeling on this subject quite clear in the past. I think women who choose to be stay at home mothers are far better for society than those who choose a career and I hate how feminism demonises those women for that choice

I think that's one thing we can all agree on.

gettingtheresometime

justworriedabit said:

74jax said:

justworriedabit said:

74jax said:

Pollycat said:

justworriedabit said:

The reason why the money was given by the parents of our friend to their son was on the basis, just in case things went wrong as sadly they do in many relationships. Fair enought if it was ten/20 years afterwards but not just a couple of years down the road 

anyway the judges will decide and we all know our friend will have to accept the outcome through no fault of his own.

Pretty dim reasoning there by your friend's parents.

They would have been better hanging on to the money and waiting to see how the marriage went.

In the current situation you describe, there's an unnecessary £100k that is potentially in the marriage pot to be divvied up.

I'm surprised you didn't point out their flawed reasoning at the time of the gift.

If that was the reason for the gift to the son, it would have been declared at the time of purchase. Can they go back to the solicitors to see what was in the notes for the reason of the gift to go towards the deposit. It has to be recorded. 
If the notes say - gift to son and daughter in law for deposit of house then obviously there's problems BUT if as you say, that was the reason, as a parent I'd have made damn sure it was recorded as such. 

EDIT oops sorry quoted wrong bit..... 🤔 

Morning 74ajax
As you will be aware I'm posting on behalf of a friend. They have not asked us to post but I am seeking help
in this very distressful situation for him. I do not know the full in and out of the wealth. I do recall the mum saying,
talking about the gift that it was given to their son at the same time they bought this house. From memory, this was done in
order to help a better deal mortgage wise I think as a bigger deposit meant a better deal and the lenders wanted to see evidence where the money was coming from. 
As another poster said earlier in the thread, the lawyers will have a better idea but posts like yours and others have helped, My husband will have a quick chat with him over the weekend as they are very close. As another said, think about the worse case scenario and hope it's better than that. Reading you post has made me confident thinking back that his gift from his parents may be 100% secure as they have been married for a lot less than ten years but we will see.
I urge anyone going into a partnership/marriage to draw up a pre-nup and if one side is not happy, then they are not for you. Sure, as the year turns into 5 and 5 into 10 ans so on the pre-nup may not carry as much weight, but it is worth considering.

Another point, like us, even their current accounts are joint as our friend wanted his wife to have full access to money. 
He is a really nice, lovely man that was cheated on and he forgave her and this again. The only credit I can give his wife is that she is not lying atm and will own up to the cheating on the divorce papers.  I always thought he was too nice for her as did his parents. He has massive support and important support from his wifes side of the family and her best friend. He is a broken man but  his parents and my husband have pushed him back into work as if he stayed at home it would not help.
Some people will cheat for the sake of cheating and some never get found out but some do. Thanks for your help.

I come from an Estate Agent background, and then New Build/Construction.  So I know any deposit has be accounted for.  
Even if it's a quick chat that was had with the solicitor at the time 'I see there's a gift here for the deposit, what is the reason for this'. And if the passing reply was 'It's for my Son to help with the purchase but to also safegurd his future if it all goes t@ts up', that will have been recorded in file notes.  
Honestly, if they haven't already, it is really worth getting the solicitor to hunt out the file from when the house was purchased.  I'd even ask the mortgage company for their records too.  

I have a pre-nup, we knew at the time it wasn't legally binding but the hubby was keen so we had it done.  I'm not sure I'd recommend or not recommend one, seeing as it can be completely ignored, but I think the point here is the PARENTS should have done something more clearer in their gift.  I'm considering several options of gifting my DD some money for a house but it wouldn't simple be given to her as a deposit.  I honestly think if the parents of your friend are so sure it was under the circumstances you mention, it will have been recorded somewhere.  They just need to dig it out.

Thank you again. I think my husband will have a chat with the parents over the weekend and then his friend and hopefully it will be detailed as I said earlier.  IMO people/parents/etc when larger gifts are made they will be recorded and often to their child only espcially if they are married not too long ago.recently. Sadly, gifts to your loved one before marriage then becomes part of the easte when you marry but you give good advice so thanks again, appreciated.
Btw, are pre-nups leagally binding now in England and have they been put to the test in your experience. Thanks again

Can I respectfully suggest that, unless your friends ask your opinion or advice, that silence is the better course of action.

swingaloo2

gettingtheresometime said:

justworriedabit said:

74jax said:

justworriedabit said:

74jax said:

Pollycat said:

justworriedabit said:

The reason why the money was given by the parents of our friend to their son was on the basis, just in case things went wrong as sadly they do in many relationships. Fair enought if it was ten/20 years afterwards but not just a couple of years down the road 

anyway the judges will decide and we all know our friend will have to accept the outcome through no fault of his own.

Pretty dim reasoning there by your friend's parents.

They would have been better hanging on to the money and waiting to see how the marriage went.

In the current situation you describe, there's an unnecessary £100k that is potentially in the marriage pot to be divvied up.

I'm surprised you didn't point out their flawed reasoning at the time of the gift.

If that was the reason for the gift to the son, it would have been declared at the time of purchase. Can they go back to the solicitors to see what was in the notes for the reason of the gift to go towards the deposit. It has to be recorded. 
If the notes say - gift to son and daughter in law for deposit of house then obviously there's problems BUT if as you say, that was the reason, as a parent I'd have made damn sure it was recorded as such. 

EDIT oops sorry quoted wrong bit..... 🤔 

Morning 74ajax
As you will be aware I'm posting on behalf of a friend. They have not asked us to post but I am seeking help
in this very distressful situation for him. I do not know the full in and out of the wealth. I do recall the mum saying,
talking about the gift that it was given to their son at the same time they bought this house. From memory, this was done in
order to help a better deal mortgage wise I think as a bigger deposit meant a better deal and the lenders wanted to see evidence where the money was coming from. 
As another poster said earlier in the thread, the lawyers will have a better idea but posts like yours and others have helped, My husband will have a quick chat with him over the weekend as they are very close. As another said, think about the worse case scenario and hope it's better than that. Reading you post has made me confident thinking back that his gift from his parents may be 100% secure as they have been married for a lot less than ten years but we will see.
I urge anyone going into a partnership/marriage to draw up a pre-nup and if one side is not happy, then they are not for you. Sure, as the year turns into 5 and 5 into 10 ans so on the pre-nup may not carry as much weight, but it is worth considering.

Another point, like us, even their current accounts are joint as our friend wanted his wife to have full access to money. 
He is a really nice, lovely man that was cheated on and he forgave her and this again. The only credit I can give his wife is that she is not lying atm and will own up to the cheating on the divorce papers.  I always thought he was too nice for her as did his parents. He has massive support and important support from his wifes side of the family and her best friend. He is a broken man but  his parents and my husband have pushed him back into work as if he stayed at home it would not help.
Some people will cheat for the sake of cheating and some never get found out but some do. Thanks for your help.

I come from an Estate Agent background, and then New Build/Construction.  So I know any deposit has be accounted for.  
Even if it's a quick chat that was had with the solicitor at the time 'I see there's a gift here for the deposit, what is the reason for this'. And if the passing reply was 'It's for my Son to help with the purchase but to also safegurd his future if it all goes t@ts up', that will have been recorded in file notes.  
Honestly, if they haven't already, it is really worth getting the solicitor to hunt out the file from when the house was purchased.  I'd even ask the mortgage company for their records too.  

I have a pre-nup, we knew at the time it wasn't legally binding but the hubby was keen so we had it done.  I'm not sure I'd recommend or not recommend one, seeing as it can be completely ignored, but I think the point here is the PARENTS should have done something more clearer in their gift.  I'm considering several options of gifting my DD some money for a house but it wouldn't simple be given to her as a deposit.  I honestly think if the parents of your friend are so sure it was under the circumstances you mention, it will have been recorded somewhere.  They just need to dig it out.

Thank you again. I think my husband will have a chat with the parents over the weekend and then his friend and hopefully it will be detailed as I said earlier.  IMO people/parents/etc when larger gifts are made they will be recorded and often to their child only espcially if they are married not too long ago.recently. Sadly, gifts to your loved one before marriage then becomes part of the easte when you marry but you give good advice so thanks again, appreciated.
Btw, are pre-nups leagally binding now in England and have they been put to the test in your experience. Thanks again

Can I respectfully suggest that, unless your friends ask your opinion or advice, that silence is the better course of action.

Absolutely agree with this. If there was as much interference from well meaning friends and the couples family members during the marriage I can well see why it failed. 

burlingtonfl6

Lover_of_Lycra said:

burlingtonfl6 said:

JamoLew said:

burlingtonfl6 said:

JamoLew said:

probably 50/50 (although the 100k gift from the parents "may" be in question)

he was happy to accept and support her lifestyle choice for 5-6 years and make sacrifices to raise their child

there's a lot of he and she in there - as a married couple it is THEIRS - savings, the house, the pension - the lot

I dont have much sympathy for "money grabbing" but this I see as her right

Not much of a sacrifice.....she wasn't doing anything
OP, tell him to brace for the worst because she will have the full weight of the system behind her.

I think you will find that a lot of (most) women and hopefully men would disagree with you.

Staying at home (being expected to) to raise children results in great sacrifices to careers

No - I'm not a woman, or a feminist, just a man who appreciates the sacrifices that my wife made to her life and career to raise our child

If you read the comment I said she wasn't doing anything, as in before she got pregnant.
I've made my feeling on this subject quite clear in the past. I think women who choose to be stay at home mothers are far better for society than those who choose a career and I hate how feminism demonises those women for that choice

Feminism doesn’t demonise women from choosing to be a stay at home parent. I don’t get know where you get this tosh. 

https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/03/myths-stay-at-home-moms/

https://mightymamabear.com/why-stay-at-home-mums-can-still-be-feminists/

Even feminist websites have to explain the situation

https://thefederalist.com/2019/01/31/feminists-insist-women-arent-success-focus-family/

''Why Do Feminists Insist Women Aren’t A Success If They Focus On Family?''

https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/its-time-to-stop-shaming-women-for-choosing-to-be-stay-at-home-moms/

''The current modern feminist narrative tells us that giving up a career to be a mother is some kind of a cop-out — a betrayal to womankind, and a waste of our intellect and talent.''

https://www.kveller.com/are-stay-at-home-moms-really-killing-feminism/

Pollycat

burlingtonfl6 said:

https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/03/myths-stay-at-home-moms/

https://mightymamabear.com/why-stay-at-home-mums-can-still-be-feminists/

Even feminist websites have to explain the situation

https://thefederalist.com/2019/01/31/feminists-insist-women-arent-success-focus-family/

''Why Do Feminists Insist Women Aren’t A Success If They Focus On Family?''

https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/its-time-to-stop-shaming-women-for-choosing-to-be-stay-at-home-moms/

''The current modern feminist narrative tells us that giving up a career to be a mother is some kind of a cop-out — a betrayal to womankind, and a waste of our intellect and talent.''

https://www.kveller.com/are-stay-at-home-moms-really-killing-feminism/

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Feminism doesn’t demonise women from choosing to be a stay at home parent. I don’t get know where you get this tosh. 

From (mainly) US articles...(one link is a duplicate too). And the last is...

Whether you grew up observing Shabbat every Friday night, or had your first taste of matzah ball soup when you married into a Jewish family, there’s no one way to parent Jewish kids. Kveller is here to give you ideas you can run with–ideas for first-time parents, interfaith parents, queer parents, adoptive parents, and everything in between–with the hopes that you can find information and inspiration that is right for your family.

As a UK woman who has never had children, I don't relate to any of that (if I may use your terminology) 'tosh'.

Those 'feminist websites' don't need to explain anything to me.

I have friends who went back to work very soon after having children.

I have friends who went back to work after their children started school.

I have friends who opted to be stay-at-home Mums into their children's teenage years.

My 2 sisters fall into 2 of those categories.

I do not differentiate between women who fall into any of those categories and me.

burlingtonfl6

Pollycat said:

burlingtonfl6 said:

https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/03/myths-stay-at-home-moms/

https://mightymamabear.com/why-stay-at-home-mums-can-still-be-feminists/

Even feminist websites have to explain the situation

https://thefederalist.com/2019/01/31/feminists-insist-women-arent-success-focus-family/

''Why Do Feminists Insist Women Aren’t A Success If They Focus On Family?''

https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/its-time-to-stop-shaming-women-for-choosing-to-be-stay-at-home-moms/

''The current modern feminist narrative tells us that giving up a career to be a mother is some kind of a cop-out — a betrayal to womankind, and a waste of our intellect and talent.''

https://www.kveller.com/are-stay-at-home-moms-really-killing-feminism/

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Feminism doesn’t demonise women from choosing to be a stay at home parent. I don’t get know where you get this tosh. 

From (mainly) US articles...(one link is a duplicate too). And the last is...

Whether you grew up observing Shabbat every Friday night, or had your first taste of matzah ball soup when you married into a Jewish family, there’s no one way to parent Jewish kids. Kveller is here to give you ideas you can run with–ideas for first-time parents, interfaith parents, queer parents, adoptive parents, and everything in between–with the hopes that you can find information and inspiration that is right for your family.

As a UK woman who has never had children, I don't relate to any of that (if I may use your terminology) 'tosh'.

Those 'feminist websites' don't need to explain anything to me.

I have friends who went back to work very soon after having children.

I have friends who went back to work after their children started school.

I have friends who opted to be stay-at-home Mums into their children's teenage years.

My 2 sisters fall into 2 of those categories.

I do not differentiate between women who fall into any of those categories and me.

Sorry, I didn't know feminists in the states were so different in their views ( just so you're aware, I'm being sarcastic. Their views aren't different you just had to find fault somewhere)
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/can-a-stay-at-home-mum-be-a-feminist-or-is-that-a-fairytale_uk_5b158207e4b030f6cdad12aa
There's a UK based article asking the same question.