Divorce and share of wealth.

Pollycat

74jax said:

If that was the reason for the gift to the son, it would have been declared at the time of purchase. Can they go back to the solicitors to see what was in the notes for the reason of the gift to go towards the deposit. It has to be recorded. 
If the notes say - gift to son and daughter in law for deposit of house then obviously there's problems BUT if as you say, that was the reason, as a parent I'd have made damn sure it was recorded as such. 

EDIT oops sorry quoted wrong bit..... 🤔 

If the gift had been dealt with 'properly' at the time of the gift, the OP of this thread wouldn't need to mention it at all as they would know that it wouldn't form part of the divorce settlement.

Unless the OP's friend's parents used an ineffective solicitor and are worrying that the ring-fenced gift is not so ring-fenced after all.

Or maybe the OP's friend doesn't know she's posting private details about him and his relationship on a pubic forum.

burlingtonfl6

annabanana82 said:

justworriedabit said:

burlingtonfl6 said:

gettingtheresometime said:

burlingtonfl6 said:

swingaloo2 said:

His moral character has no bearing on this nor does the fact that his wife is a 'cheat'. If she thought your friend was as nice and loving as you say then why did she cheat. Clearly to give up her life with this 'nice' man she must have been unhappy and no one, friends or family, actually know what happens inside a marriage. It does not matter who was right and who was wrong the divorce will still have to be fair to both sides.

You do know people cheat even though they have a loving a nice spouse, don't you? 

Yes that's true but no one really knows what goes on inside a marriage apart from the parties concerned.

The more I think about it what a clueless thing of the poster to state.
How much you love someone and how nice you are to them means nothing if they're going to cheat 

Thanks.
The bottom line is even his wife has not claimed any nastiness/etc by her husband hence the clear support from the wife's parents/family and the wife's best friend. It could not be a clearer case of a good husband being cheated on for no real, valid reason other than his wife seeing what sadly too many people see these days is that the grass is greener on the other side,

Is there ever a real and valid reason for cheating on someone? 
Whatever anyone else sees she had her reasons for cheating, perhaps she had post natal depression and she just wanted someone to pay her attention, or to see her as someone other than Mum?
I think you deleted a comment about her low paid but magnanimous parents taking his side and not talking to her at the moment along with her best friend, no doubt she's hurting too now and her support network has gone, assuming it was there to start with? Maybe that had something to do with it?
Or maybe she just wanted to give a family friend something else to talk about on the internet?

Just so we are clear are you saying there is never a valid reason for cheating......because you follow that statement by throwing a few excuses into the argument.

Pollycat

burlingtonfl6 said:

If you read the comment I said she wasn't doing anything, as in before she got pregnant.
I've made my feeling on this subject quite clear in the past. I think women who choose to be stay at home mothers are far better for society than those who choose a career and I hate how feminism demonises those women for that choice

I've made my feelings on this subject quite clear in the past too.

I believe it's none of my business what other women do with their lives.

What I do disagree with is people who think that someone (of any sex) who chooses to be a stay-at-home carer for their children isn't contributing to the household.

And therefore don't deserve a fair share of any money/property in the event of a divorce.

FTR - I'm not saying that is what you believe.

The husband presumably accepted his wife's reasons for not working.

The time to object was at the time.

Not now when he faces sharing what he thinks of as his.

burlingtonfl6

Pollycat said:

burlingtonfl6 said:

If you read the comment I said she wasn't doing anything, as in before she got pregnant.
I've made my feeling on this subject quite clear in the past. I think women who choose to be stay at home mothers are far better for society than those who choose a career and I hate how feminism demonises those women for that choice

I've made my feelings on this subject quite clear in the past too.

I believe it's none of my business what other women do with their lives.

What I do disagree with is people who think that someone (of any sex) who chooses to be a stay-at-home carer for their children isn't contributing to the household.

And therefore don't deserve a fair share of any money/property in the event of a divorce.

FTR - I'm not saying that is what you believe.

The husband presumably accepted his wife's reasons for not working.

The time to object was at the time.

Not now when he faces sharing what he thinks of as his.

It's the ''fair share'' part that has men under the age of 35 avoiding marriage.
( Marriage rates are at their lowest in history)
If you start with nothing together and build a life together over a decent length of time then I agree, the stay at home parent should get a minimum of 50%.
What I can't stand is people marrying someone with money, coming into the relationship with very little, staying for a few years and expecting amounts of money they should really have no right to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv8TUOlPT-8

justworriedabit

74jax said:

Pollycat said:

justworriedabit said:

The reason why the money was given by the parents of our friend to their son was on the basis, just in case things went wrong as sadly they do in many relationships. Fair enought if it was ten/20 years afterwards but not just a couple of years down the road 

anyway the judges will decide and we all know our friend will have to accept the outcome through no fault of his own.

Pretty dim reasoning there by your friend's parents.

They would have been better hanging on to the money and waiting to see how the marriage went.

In the current situation you describe, there's an unnecessary £100k that is potentially in the marriage pot to be divvied up.

I'm surprised you didn't point out their flawed reasoning at the time of the gift.

If that was the reason for the gift to the son, it would have been declared at the time of purchase. Can they go back to the solicitors to see what was in the notes for the reason of the gift to go towards the deposit. It has to be recorded. 
If the notes say - gift to son and daughter in law for deposit of house then obviously there's problems BUT if as you say, that was the reason, as a parent I'd have made damn sure it was recorded as such. 

EDIT oops sorry quoted wrong bit..... 🤔 

Morning 74ajax
As you will be aware I'm posting on behalf of a friend. They have not asked us to post but I am seeking help
in this very distressful situation for him. I do not know the full in and out of the wealth. I do recall the mum saying,
talking about the gift that it was given to their son at the same time they bought this house. From memory, this was done in
order to help a better deal mortgage wise I think as a bigger deposit meant a better deal and the lenders wanted to see evidence where the money was coming from. 
As another poster said earlier in the thread, the lawyers will have a better idea but posts like yours and others have helped, My husband will have a quick chat with him over the weekend as they are very close. As another said, think about the worse case scenario and hope it's better than that. Reading you post has made me confident thinking back that his gift from his parents may be 100% secure as they have been married for a lot less than ten years but we will see.
I urge anyone going into a partnership/marriage to draw up a pre-nup and if one side is not happy, then they are not for you. Sure, as the year turns into 5 and 5 into 10 ans so on the pre-nup may not carry as much weight, but it is worth considering.

Another point, like us, even their current accounts are joint as our friend wanted his wife to have full access to money. 
He is a really nice, lovely man that was cheated on and he forgave her and this again. The only credit I can give his wife is that she is not lying atm and will own up to the cheating on the divorce papers.  I always thought he was too nice for her as did his parents. He has massive support and important support from his wifes side of the family and her best friend. He is a broken man but  his parents and my husband have pushed him back into work as if he stayed at home it would not help.
Some people will cheat for the sake of cheating and some never get found out but some do. Thanks for your help.

Pollycat

burlingtonfl6 said:

It's the ''fair share'' part that has men under the age of 35 avoiding marriage.
( Marriage rates are at their lowest in history)
If you start with nothing together and build a life together over a decent length of time then I agree, the stay at home parent should get a minimum of 50%.
What I can't stand is people marrying someone with money, coming into the relationship with very little, staying for a few years and expecting amounts of money they should really have no right to.

I think you muddied the waters somewhat by not being as specific in your earlier comment as you are in this one.

Pollycat

justworriedabit said:

As you will be aware I'm posting on behalf of a friend. They have not asked us to post but I am seeking help
in this very distressful situation for him. I do not know the full in and out of the wealth. I do recall the mum saying,
talking about the gift that it was given to their son at the same time they bought this house. From memory, this was done in
order to help a better deal mortgage wise I think as a bigger deposit meant a better deal and the lenders wanted to see evidence where the money was coming from. 

I would be spitting mad if I found out that a so-called friend was airing my private life in public without my explicit knowledge and consent.

justworriedabit said:

Reading you post has made me confident thinking back that his gift from his parents may be 100% secure as they have been married for a lot less than ten years but we will see.
I urge anyone going into a partnership/marriage to draw up a pre-nup and if one side is not happy, then they are not for you. Sure, as the year turns into 5 and 5 into 10 ans so on the pre-nup may not carry as much weight, but it is worth considering.

I wouldn't be so confident if I were you.

It depends how it was done. And you don't know the details of that.

74jax

justworriedabit said:

74jax said:

Pollycat said:

justworriedabit said:

The reason why the money was given by the parents of our friend to their son was on the basis, just in case things went wrong as sadly they do in many relationships. Fair enought if it was ten/20 years afterwards but not just a couple of years down the road 

anyway the judges will decide and we all know our friend will have to accept the outcome through no fault of his own.

Pretty dim reasoning there by your friend's parents.

They would have been better hanging on to the money and waiting to see how the marriage went.

In the current situation you describe, there's an unnecessary £100k that is potentially in the marriage pot to be divvied up.

I'm surprised you didn't point out their flawed reasoning at the time of the gift.

If that was the reason for the gift to the son, it would have been declared at the time of purchase. Can they go back to the solicitors to see what was in the notes for the reason of the gift to go towards the deposit. It has to be recorded. 
If the notes say - gift to son and daughter in law for deposit of house then obviously there's problems BUT if as you say, that was the reason, as a parent I'd have made damn sure it was recorded as such. 

EDIT oops sorry quoted wrong bit..... 🤔 

Morning 74ajax
As you will be aware I'm posting on behalf of a friend. They have not asked us to post but I am seeking help
in this very distressful situation for him. I do not know the full in and out of the wealth. I do recall the mum saying,
talking about the gift that it was given to their son at the same time they bought this house. From memory, this was done in
order to help a better deal mortgage wise I think as a bigger deposit meant a better deal and the lenders wanted to see evidence where the money was coming from. 
As another poster said earlier in the thread, the lawyers will have a better idea but posts like yours and others have helped, My husband will have a quick chat with him over the weekend as they are very close. As another said, think about the worse case scenario and hope it's better than that. Reading you post has made me confident thinking back that his gift from his parents may be 100% secure as they have been married for a lot less than ten years but we will see.
I urge anyone going into a partnership/marriage to draw up a pre-nup and if one side is not happy, then they are not for you. Sure, as the year turns into 5 and 5 into 10 ans so on the pre-nup may not carry as much weight, but it is worth considering.

Another point, like us, even their current accounts are joint as our friend wanted his wife to have full access to money. 
He is a really nice, lovely man that was cheated on and he forgave her and this again. The only credit I can give his wife is that she is not lying atm and will own up to the cheating on the divorce papers.  I always thought he was too nice for her as did his parents. He has massive support and important support from his wifes side of the family and her best friend. He is a broken man but  his parents and my husband have pushed him back into work as if he stayed at home it would not help.
Some people will cheat for the sake of cheating and some never get found out but some do. Thanks for your help.

I come from an Estate Agent background, and then New Build/Construction.  So I know any deposit has be accounted for.  
Even if it's a quick chat that was had with the solicitor at the time 'I see there's a gift here for the deposit, what is the reason for this'. And if the passing reply was 'It's for my Son to help with the purchase but to also safegurd his future if it all goes t@ts up', that will have been recorded in file notes.  
Honestly, if they haven't already, it is really worth getting the solicitor to hunt out the file from when the house was purchased.  I'd even ask the mortgage company for their records too.  

I have a pre-nup, we knew at the time it wasn't legally binding but the hubby was keen so we had it done.  I'm not sure I'd recommend or not recommend one, seeing as it can be completely ignored, but I think the point here is the PARENTS should have done something more clearer in their gift.  I'm considering several options of gifting my DD some money for a house but it wouldn't simple be given to her as a deposit.  I honestly think if the parents of your friend are so sure it was under the circumstances you mention, it will have been recorded somewhere.  They just need to dig it out.

justworriedabit

74jax said:

Pollycat said:

justworriedabit said:

The reason why the money was given by the parents of our friend to their son was on the basis, just in case things went wrong as sadly they do in many relationships. Fair enought if it was ten/20 years afterwards but not just a couple of years down the road 

anyway the judges will decide and we all know our friend will have to accept the outcome through no fault of his own.

Pretty dim reasoning there by your friend's parents.

They would have been better hanging on to the money and waiting to see how the marriage went.

In the current situation you describe, there's an unnecessary £100k that is potentially in the marriage pot to be divvied up.

I'm surprised you didn't point out their flawed reasoning at the time of the gift.

If that was the reason for the gift to the son, it would have been declared at the time of purchase. Can they go back to the solicitors to see what was in the notes for the reason of the gift to go towards the deposit. It has to be recorded. 
If the notes say - gift to son and daughter in law for deposit of house then obviously there's problems BUT if as you say, that was the reason, as a parent I'd have made damn sure it was recorded as such. 

EDIT oops sorry quoted wrong bit..... 🤔 

A bit more on this and anyone worried about gifts made to them only after marriage, inheritance
etc, worth a read,
https://mensrightsdivorcelaw.com/blog/gifts-from-parents-divorce/#:~:text=In many cases, gifts from,property of the recipient spouse.&text=Gifts received prior to the date of marriage

justworriedabit

74jax said:

justworriedabit said:

74jax said:

Pollycat said:

justworriedabit said:

The reason why the money was given by the parents of our friend to their son was on the basis, just in case things went wrong as sadly they do in many relationships. Fair enought if it was ten/20 years afterwards but not just a couple of years down the road 

anyway the judges will decide and we all know our friend will have to accept the outcome through no fault of his own.

Pretty dim reasoning there by your friend's parents.

They would have been better hanging on to the money and waiting to see how the marriage went.

In the current situation you describe, there's an unnecessary £100k that is potentially in the marriage pot to be divvied up.

I'm surprised you didn't point out their flawed reasoning at the time of the gift.

If that was the reason for the gift to the son, it would have been declared at the time of purchase. Can they go back to the solicitors to see what was in the notes for the reason of the gift to go towards the deposit. It has to be recorded. 
If the notes say - gift to son and daughter in law for deposit of house then obviously there's problems BUT if as you say, that was the reason, as a parent I'd have made damn sure it was recorded as such. 

EDIT oops sorry quoted wrong bit..... 🤔 

Morning 74ajax
As you will be aware I'm posting on behalf of a friend. They have not asked us to post but I am seeking help
in this very distressful situation for him. I do not know the full in and out of the wealth. I do recall the mum saying,
talking about the gift that it was given to their son at the same time they bought this house. From memory, this was done in
order to help a better deal mortgage wise I think as a bigger deposit meant a better deal and the lenders wanted to see evidence where the money was coming from. 
As another poster said earlier in the thread, the lawyers will have a better idea but posts like yours and others have helped, My husband will have a quick chat with him over the weekend as they are very close. As another said, think about the worse case scenario and hope it's better than that. Reading you post has made me confident thinking back that his gift from his parents may be 100% secure as they have been married for a lot less than ten years but we will see.
I urge anyone going into a partnership/marriage to draw up a pre-nup and if one side is not happy, then they are not for you. Sure, as the year turns into 5 and 5 into 10 ans so on the pre-nup may not carry as much weight, but it is worth considering.

Another point, like us, even their current accounts are joint as our friend wanted his wife to have full access to money. 
He is a really nice, lovely man that was cheated on and he forgave her and this again. The only credit I can give his wife is that she is not lying atm and will own up to the cheating on the divorce papers.  I always thought he was too nice for her as did his parents. He has massive support and important support from his wifes side of the family and her best friend. He is a broken man but  his parents and my husband have pushed him back into work as if he stayed at home it would not help.
Some people will cheat for the sake of cheating and some never get found out but some do. Thanks for your help.

I come from an Estate Agent background, and then New Build/Construction.  So I know any deposit has be accounted for.  
Even if it's a quick chat that was had with the solicitor at the time 'I see there's a gift here for the deposit, what is the reason for this'. And if the passing reply was 'It's for my Son to help with the purchase but to also safegurd his future if it all goes t@ts up', that will have been recorded in file notes.  
Honestly, if they haven't already, it is really worth getting the solicitor to hunt out the file from when the house was purchased.  I'd even ask the mortgage company for their records too.  

I have a pre-nup, we knew at the time it wasn't legally binding but the hubby was keen so we had it done.  I'm not sure I'd recommend or not recommend one, seeing as it can be completely ignored, but I think the point here is the PARENTS should have done something more clearer in their gift.  I'm considering several options of gifting my DD some money for a house but it wouldn't simple be given to her as a deposit.  I honestly think if the parents of your friend are so sure it was under the circumstances you mention, it will have been recorded somewhere.  They just need to dig it out.

Thank you again. I think my husband will have a chat with the parents over the weekend and then his friend and hopefully it will be detailed as I said earlier.  IMO people/parents/etc when larger gifts are made they will be recorded and often to their child only espcially if they are married not too long ago.recently. Sadly, gifts to your loved one before marriage then becomes part of the easte when you marry but you give good advice so thanks again, appreciated.
Btw, are pre-nups leagally binding now in England and have they been put to the test in your experience. Thanks again