Stamp Duty Ending

Crashy_Time

About stamp duty, I think they might be panicked into extending the holiday, but against the bigger economic backdrop it is not really going to make much difference is it?

Thrugelmir

MobileSaver said:

Thrugelmir said:

Getting_greyer said:

Do you not think the rise and increasing efficiency of home working has had an effect though?  

Only for some. In general a myth. Far less productive. Complaints abound of delays and time it takes for things to happen.

As with all things, you generally only hear about stuff when something goes wrong; there's nowhere near as much reason to be vocal for the many people where home working has worked out just fine.

For people it has worked out fine. Different for employers. 

Crashy_Time

Mickey666 said:

mrlegend123 said:

Bonniepurple said:

mrlegend123 said:

MobileSaver said:

mrlegend123 said:

The housing market is rigged and mobilesaver is blind to it.

Hang on a minute! You have been repeatedly telling everyone that "a 1% mortgage rate increase will result in a 20% drop in prices"... how can that happen if the housing market is rigged?!?!

Either your initial "20% price drop" claim is nonsense or your "market is rigged" claim is nonsense or both are; they can't both be true so which is it?

mrlegend123 said:

however, plenty of room for mortgage rates to go further down (plenty of years in the rigged system). 

So even if this was true you are presumably recommending everyone get on the property ladder right now and make hay while the sun shines?

like I said before l, I referenced BOE report regarding 1% increase in real interest rates may reduce house prices by 20% over the long term (assets). Let's add 3% to mortgage rates and see if borrowers can afford it still?  extra few grand a year to the lender. 

I give up, I don't care mobilesaver. you don't understand and talking nonsense just open your eyes. The housing market post GFC is not the same hence the props. I would love to see the props go and watch the housing market collapse.

I feel sorry for the younger generation and hope they don't extend stamp duty. Property tax is the way to go to make it fair with additional BTL tax on landlords. 

Only thing is, Stamp Duty is only payable when you buy a property.  How many elderly people are still in family homes because by the time they’ve paid for solicitors, movers, stamp duty, estate agents and a new property there’s not enough left to make it a viable option?  Perhaps building fewer townhouses (therefore lots of stairs) and more bungalows or even just more versatile accommodation (bedroom/study with en-suite downstairs, more bedrooms and bathrooms upstairs)?

I agree with you regarding different types of property being required. However, older generation are asset rich cash poor/good which is more than the young generation majority being asset poor cash poor. It is time for the older generation to pay their taxes as they have benefited the most from Gov/CB policies over the years (yes, I know they didn't have a say). Stamp duty is bad, but a property tax at 0.4% a year of the property value is fair. You can't have houses earning more a year than your average then moan you can't afford the property tax! 

If the old are asset rich and cash poor then how can they actually pay an asset tax?   
It would presumably have to be some sort of deferred payment (unless you're going to turf them out of their homes, all bought with taxed money I might add) for their estate to pay on death when the house can be sold . . . . which funnily enough is exactly the system we've already got, only we call it inheritance tax

They pay stamp duty when they sell, more council tax on second property, more council tax on empty property  more tax on rent received etc. etc. The easiest way for the young to tax the boomers is to make low offers for their properties.

Crashy_Time

Crashy_Time said:

Mickey666 said:

mrlegend123 said:

Bonniepurple said:

mrlegend123 said:

MobileSaver said:

mrlegend123 said:

The housing market is rigged and mobilesaver is blind to it.

Hang on a minute! You have been repeatedly telling everyone that "a 1% mortgage rate increase will result in a 20% drop in prices"... how can that happen if the housing market is rigged?!?!

Either your initial "20% price drop" claim is nonsense or your "market is rigged" claim is nonsense or both are; they can't both be true so which is it?

mrlegend123 said:

however, plenty of room for mortgage rates to go further down (plenty of years in the rigged system). 

So even if this was true you are presumably recommending everyone get on the property ladder right now and make hay while the sun shines?

like I said before l, I referenced BOE report regarding 1% increase in real interest rates may reduce house prices by 20% over the long term (assets). Let's add 3% to mortgage rates and see if borrowers can afford it still?  extra few grand a year to the lender. 

I give up, I don't care mobilesaver. you don't understand and talking nonsense just open your eyes. The housing market post GFC is not the same hence the props. I would love to see the props go and watch the housing market collapse.

I feel sorry for the younger generation and hope they don't extend stamp duty. Property tax is the way to go to make it fair with additional BTL tax on landlords. 

Only thing is, Stamp Duty is only payable when you buy a property.  How many elderly people are still in family homes because by the time they’ve paid for solicitors, movers, stamp duty, estate agents and a new property there’s not enough left to make it a viable option?  Perhaps building fewer townhouses (therefore lots of stairs) and more bungalows or even just more versatile accommodation (bedroom/study with en-suite downstairs, more bedrooms and bathrooms upstairs)?

I agree with you regarding different types of property being required. However, older generation are asset rich cash poor/good which is more than the young generation majority being asset poor cash poor. It is time for the older generation to pay their taxes as they have benefited the most from Gov/CB policies over the years (yes, I know they didn't have a say). Stamp duty is bad, but a property tax at 0.4% a year of the property value is fair. You can't have houses earning more a year than your average then moan you can't afford the property tax! 

If the old are asset rich and cash poor then how can they actually pay an asset tax?   
It would presumably have to be some sort of deferred payment (unless you're going to turf them out of their homes, all bought with taxed money I might add) for their estate to pay on death when the house can be sold . . . . which funnily enough is exactly the system we've already got, only we call it inheritance tax

They pay stamp duty when they sell, more council tax on second property, more council tax on empty property  more tax on rent received etc. etc. The easiest way for the young to tax the boomers is to make low offers for their properties.

And it looks like the Scottish Government are thinking the same....
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/blow-for-scottish-house-hunters-as-help-to-buy-is-axed/ar-BB1ddgZg

More like a blow for house sellers really?

Thrugelmir

Crashy_Time said:

Crashy_Time said:

Mickey666 said:

mrlegend123 said:

Bonniepurple said:

mrlegend123 said:

MobileSaver said:

mrlegend123 said:

The housing market is rigged and mobilesaver is blind to it.

Hang on a minute! You have been repeatedly telling everyone that "a 1% mortgage rate increase will result in a 20% drop in prices"... how can that happen if the housing market is rigged?!?!

Either your initial "20% price drop" claim is nonsense or your "market is rigged" claim is nonsense or both are; they can't both be true so which is it?

mrlegend123 said:

however, plenty of room for mortgage rates to go further down (plenty of years in the rigged system). 

So even if this was true you are presumably recommending everyone get on the property ladder right now and make hay while the sun shines?

like I said before l, I referenced BOE report regarding 1% increase in real interest rates may reduce house prices by 20% over the long term (assets). Let's add 3% to mortgage rates and see if borrowers can afford it still?  extra few grand a year to the lender. 

I give up, I don't care mobilesaver. you don't understand and talking nonsense just open your eyes. The housing market post GFC is not the same hence the props. I would love to see the props go and watch the housing market collapse.

I feel sorry for the younger generation and hope they don't extend stamp duty. Property tax is the way to go to make it fair with additional BTL tax on landlords. 

Only thing is, Stamp Duty is only payable when you buy a property.  How many elderly people are still in family homes because by the time they’ve paid for solicitors, movers, stamp duty, estate agents and a new property there’s not enough left to make it a viable option?  Perhaps building fewer townhouses (therefore lots of stairs) and more bungalows or even just more versatile accommodation (bedroom/study with en-suite downstairs, more bedrooms and bathrooms upstairs)?

I agree with you regarding different types of property being required. However, older generation are asset rich cash poor/good which is more than the young generation majority being asset poor cash poor. It is time for the older generation to pay their taxes as they have benefited the most from Gov/CB policies over the years (yes, I know they didn't have a say). Stamp duty is bad, but a property tax at 0.4% a year of the property value is fair. You can't have houses earning more a year than your average then moan you can't afford the property tax! 

If the old are asset rich and cash poor then how can they actually pay an asset tax?   
It would presumably have to be some sort of deferred payment (unless you're going to turf them out of their homes, all bought with taxed money I might add) for their estate to pay on death when the house can be sold . . . . which funnily enough is exactly the system we've already got, only we call it inheritance tax

They pay stamp duty when they sell, more council tax on second property, more council tax on empty property  more tax on rent received etc. etc. The easiest way for the young to tax the boomers is to make low offers for their properties.

And it looks like the Scottish Government are thinking the same....
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/blow-for-scottish-house-hunters-as-help-to-buy-is-axed/ar-BB1ddgZg

More like a blow for house sellers really?

More likely the SNP are struggling to fund other commitments they've made. The payback from the HTB scheme comes in many forms. 

Crashy_Time

Thrugelmir said:

Crashy_Time said:

Crashy_Time said:

Mickey666 said:

mrlegend123 said:

Bonniepurple said:

mrlegend123 said:

MobileSaver said:

mrlegend123 said:

The housing market is rigged and mobilesaver is blind to it.

Hang on a minute! You have been repeatedly telling everyone that "a 1% mortgage rate increase will result in a 20% drop in prices"... how can that happen if the housing market is rigged?!?!

Either your initial "20% price drop" claim is nonsense or your "market is rigged" claim is nonsense or both are; they can't both be true so which is it?

mrlegend123 said:

however, plenty of room for mortgage rates to go further down (plenty of years in the rigged system). 

So even if this was true you are presumably recommending everyone get on the property ladder right now and make hay while the sun shines?

like I said before l, I referenced BOE report regarding 1% increase in real interest rates may reduce house prices by 20% over the long term (assets). Let's add 3% to mortgage rates and see if borrowers can afford it still?  extra few grand a year to the lender. 

I give up, I don't care mobilesaver. you don't understand and talking nonsense just open your eyes. The housing market post GFC is not the same hence the props. I would love to see the props go and watch the housing market collapse.

I feel sorry for the younger generation and hope they don't extend stamp duty. Property tax is the way to go to make it fair with additional BTL tax on landlords. 

Only thing is, Stamp Duty is only payable when you buy a property.  How many elderly people are still in family homes because by the time they’ve paid for solicitors, movers, stamp duty, estate agents and a new property there’s not enough left to make it a viable option?  Perhaps building fewer townhouses (therefore lots of stairs) and more bungalows or even just more versatile accommodation (bedroom/study with en-suite downstairs, more bedrooms and bathrooms upstairs)?

I agree with you regarding different types of property being required. However, older generation are asset rich cash poor/good which is more than the young generation majority being asset poor cash poor. It is time for the older generation to pay their taxes as they have benefited the most from Gov/CB policies over the years (yes, I know they didn't have a say). Stamp duty is bad, but a property tax at 0.4% a year of the property value is fair. You can't have houses earning more a year than your average then moan you can't afford the property tax! 

If the old are asset rich and cash poor then how can they actually pay an asset tax?   
It would presumably have to be some sort of deferred payment (unless you're going to turf them out of their homes, all bought with taxed money I might add) for their estate to pay on death when the house can be sold . . . . which funnily enough is exactly the system we've already got, only we call it inheritance tax

They pay stamp duty when they sell, more council tax on second property, more council tax on empty property  more tax on rent received etc. etc. The easiest way for the young to tax the boomers is to make low offers for their properties.

And it looks like the Scottish Government are thinking the same....
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/blow-for-scottish-house-hunters-as-help-to-buy-is-axed/ar-BB1ddgZg

More like a blow for house sellers really?

More likely the SNP are struggling to fund other commitments they've made. The payback from the HTB scheme comes in many forms. 

Of course they are, I wasn`t seriously suggesting that they were directly attacking boomers, although it is boomers and kite flyers who will have to take less money for their house due to governments not being able to backstop property markets the way they have been doing.

BikingBud

Mickey666 said:

TBH, I'm not too fussed about a housing market price crash because since I'm mortgage free, like the majority of UK homeowners, I don't really care what my house is worth because it's still my home.
In fact, bring on the crash, let house values collapse and then there'll be no point in the property tax you seem so keen on.  I'll still have my home AND will save tax - seems like a win-win to me 
Be careful what you wish for

Be careful using terms like majority as they are often quite misleading. The split is roughly into thirds, 1/3 own (mortgage free), slightly less think they own but in fact they are paying a hp agreement and the other slightly more than a third do not own.
What is most interesting is the demographic of ownership since 1997, there has been a drop from 68% of 35-44 yr olds to 50% this must be based upon the change in ratio from between 3 and 4 times earnings to between 5 and 12 times earnings. The affordability has been affected massively, with the ratios increasing by factors of between 1.7 and 3.0. This is not a few mobile phones or a nights out, this is unaffordable deposits, mortgages being extended to 30+yrs as the norm and people being forced to delay life as they feel compelled together on the "property ladder". 

Asset rich and cash poor has only come about because they have forced the house prices up to crazy levels.  As is always mentioned on here the asset is only what some one can and is willing to pay.  @Mickey666 and others that are wishing to sustain HPI how do you envisage your children/grandchildren ever being able to afford unless the prices of the asset come down significantly?

The only people to really make as always are the bankers.  All smoke and mirrors - Thrugelmir

MobileSaver

Crashy_Time said:

The easiest way for the young to tax the boomers is to make low offers for their properties.

Can you remind everyone how that "easiest way" has worked out for you over the last fifteen or so years?

MobileSaver

BikingBud said:

Mickey666 said:

TBH, I'm not too fussed about a housing market price crash because since I'm mortgage free, like the majority of UK homeowners, I don't really care what my house is worth because it's still my home.

Be careful using terms like majority as they are often quite misleading. The split is roughly into thirds, 1/3 own (mortgage free), slightly less think they own but in fact they are paying a hp agreement and the other slightly more than a third do not own.

I don't know where you got your figures from but they are very wrong!

A third of all homes are bought for cash so are mortgage free from day one. However every day that goes by another mortgage (that may have been taken out say 18 years ago) is paid off in full and so also now becomes mortgage free. The cumulative effect of this is that something like 60% of all homes are mortgage free.

I really don't know what you meant by "slightly more than a third do not own"; if you are referring to interest-only mortgages then that only accounts for about 5% of UK homeowners.

Having said all that, although I could be wrong, I think Mickey666 meant that the majority of homeowners don't care what their house is worth not that the majority are mortgage free... (notwithstanding that both statements would be correct anyway.)

SpiderLegs

Crashy_Time said:

SpiderLegs said:

MobileSaver said:

Crashy_Time said:

You said it was a fact that property transactions fell 50% from their peak, what do you think caused this?

Was it a 1% increase in mortgage interest rates, the end of FOM or the end of a Stamp Duty holiday?

If none of those then what is the relevance to this thread? (Other than deflecting from the fact that every single one of your reasons for why there will be a house price crash has been shown to be somewhat flawed.)

Tbh I’m not really sure why crashy keeps pushing this stat for. It doesn’t really seem to be relevant to anything.

transactions are low, house prices go up.
transactions were high, house prices went up.

Not quite, transactions were high, house prices were lower and interest rates higher.
Now transactions have fallen 50%, interest rates have been cut to near zero and prices are much higher!
Any move up in interest rates and either transactions or prices have to go lower.

Hi crashy.
can you give me sone context to your claim that transactions have fallen by 50%