Wing Parking second stage

maxxpayne

Happy new year everyone!

Following the newbies thread, as the keeper of the vehicle, I did a stage one appeal to Wing Parking for a PCN issued in an estate managed by Islington council in beginning of October 2020. The appeal was done 26 days after the PCN was and I have not received an NTK yet.

Beginning December 2020, I received the expected refusal of my appeal. Here's the relevant text from their rejection email:

As your Stage 1 appeal has not been upheld, your options now are to either pay the Parking Charge Notice or to make a Stage 2 appeal. The charges have been held during your appeal and we will allow a further period of 28 days from the date of this letter during which you may pay the discounted charge of £60.00. Thereafter the full charge of £100.00 will be due. Your account has already been amended to reflect the lower charge and full details of how to pay are shown on the rear of the PCN or on our website, http://www.wingparking.co.uk/make-payment.html Please note that once the Parking Charge Notice has been paid, the appeal process is no longer available. If you are dissatisfied with the facts outlined in the reply, you also have the option of taking your complaint further, to Stage 2, by writing directly to our clients within 28 days.
If you wish to make a Stage 2 appeal, please address your correspondence to:
Islington Council
Estate Parking Section
PO Box 70889
Islington
London N1P 1GB
Alternatively you may email housing.transport@islington.gov.uk

The Stage 2 appeal must be made within 28 days of the date of this reply and must include:
* Your name and address
* The registration number of your vehicle
* The date and exact location of the incident
* Why you feel that the PCN should be cancelled

If you do not submit a Stage 2 appeal with 28 days, or make payment of the charge within 28 days, then the matter will be passed for further debt recovery action to recover the charge and you may incur additional charges. If you do opt to make a second stage appeal, you must appreciate that the overall entire appeals process may take longer than the 35 days specified in the BPA Code of Practice, but we would not expect it to take any more than an additional 21 days. However, your case will remain “on hold” throughout this time.
Please note that if you choose to submit a Stage 2 appeal to our clients, and you do not receive a reply within 28 days, you must contact us to notify us that your appeal reply is still outstanding so that we can look into why your appeal has not been processed. If you do not contact us, and a reply has been sent to you, it is likely that the case will be recorded as outstanding and further debt recovery action will be taken that will incur you in additional costs. You may pay the charges, or you may appeal further. You cannot do both. Any payment of the charge will mean closure of the case and the cancellation of any ongoing appeal process. If you do choose to appeal further, and your Stage 2 appeal is then rejected, you will then be given a final opportunity to appeal a third time to an Independent Appeals Service (POPLA)

I have highlighted what I think are some downright strange instructions - for example, the part that asks me to notify Wing Parking about the council's response. Do I have to?

Anyway, my question now is what should I write to the council? The same template text from the newbies thread that I sent out in the first instance? Something more?

Thank you!

BrownTrout

Its just their silly process.
Basically repeat what you did at first stage

Redx

As above , same appeal to the council , as keeper , no revealing who was driving

When that second stage is rejected you need a popla code from wing , hence why you inform wing otherwise you wouldn't get one. They tell you this in their reply

It's a 3 stage process , follow that process

maxxpayne

Thank you @BrownTrout and @Redx - I've sent out the appleal highlighting that I'm doing this as the registered keeper. Note that it's been approximately 111 days since the allaged contravention and I have not received a NTK. Hopefully that alone counts towards POFA.

Redx

It won't with the council but it will with a correctly worded popla appeal , once popla start adjudicating again

Coupon-mad

It won't be relevant land anyway - it's Council owned so even if you got a NTK in time (which you didn't) it would have been a ''non-POFA'' one not capable of keeper liability.  For this reason, Wing Parking ones are easy to win.

I see that the draft (statutory) new Code of Practice misses a trick by not banning three-stage appeals.  It needs to say there can be no added layers of appeal and I see that the MoneyAdviceTrust's reply to the MHCLG mentioned that:

http://www.moneyadvicetrust.org/SiteCollectionDocuments/Policy consultation responses/Unilateral responses/Money Advice Trust response to the MHCLG Parking Code Enforcement Framework.pdf

''We would like to see a limit on the number of stages that our clients have to go through

in order to progress their complaint and the process should be streamlined to minimize

the number of stages. Most complaints processes should have two stages, first to the

firm or body and then to the independent complaints body.''

maxxpayne

As expected, Islington council replied with a template rejection letter alongside a POPLA reference number.

I now plan to file a POPLA appeal following the post here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5533834/ukpc-popla-appeal-help#post71383972. In summary, the key points will be:

1. A compliant Notice to Keeper was never served - no Keeper Liability can apply.
2. The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who was liable for the charge
3. No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice
4. The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself

Hopefully that should be good enough?

Umkomaas

Have you read this thread?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5994086/wing-parking/p1

maxxpayne

Umkomaas said:

Have you read this thread?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5994086/wing-parking/p1

I indeed have. Felt like virtually the same thing? There was no NTK issued, which is highlited as a point in appleal link I provided, which is sort of implied but missing in the above thread?

Redx

So are you saying that there was a windscreen PCN and no follow up NTK PCN in the post to the keeper ?

If that is the case then add that failure to the Popla appeal as well

The more they fail on , the better

You will receive a response stating that wing are not contesting the popla appeal , they will have placed it on the too difficult pile

Coupon-mad

This has to win and yes, those are the 4 points I would use for POPLA, making it clear in #1 if you are saying there was no NTK served at all.