How to Fix Marriage

gozaimasu

I'll be the first to suggest separate Christmases. As I see it, the tier3 etc rules don't apply during 23-27 December since 3 households can be in a bubble. She should go to her family and you should take the kids to your family. Some time apart might be just what you need.

[Deleted User]

gozaimasu said:

I'll be the first to suggest separate Christmases. As I see it, the tier3 etc rules don't apply during 23-27 December since 3 households can be in a bubble. She should go to her family and you should take the kids to your family. Some time apart might be just what you need.

That's a good idea and a good point about the lockdown rules over Christmas.

burlingtonfl6

gettingtheresometime said:

zagfles said:

ManicRower said:

Thank you to everyone who has responded, I really do appreciate it. A lot of food for thought, just to answer a couple of questions and clarify a few points:
- I'm a Management Consultant so 45-50hr weeks is the norm and that is manageable. It just happens that this is a real stinker of a client and a hospital pass of a job role. This role has been about ~60hrs a week on average for the last 12 months but I've scaled back to 'only' 50-55hrs in the last month or so whilst I try and plot an exit route from this client. 
- I'm focused on achieving the promotion because 1) It's pretty much my 'life' outside of being a Dad and Husband so it gives me a bit of structure/focus, and 2) It's worth about £25k per annum, enough for one of us to then reduce our hours in support of the other and hopefully make things more manageable for us as a family/couple going forward. 
- I fully agree my wife does the most of the household chores......I guess I see that as 'fair' at the moment (rightly or wrongly) given I am at work and I do contribute.....even if the split is 70/30ish her way. I agree that I am going to have to do more when my wife goes back to work and get that split to 50/50 so that she can press on with her career if that's what she wants to do. 

I guess where I personally am struggling is the lack of compromise, i.e. I can reduce my hours and contribute more to the running of the house.....but we won't have as much spare cash to go on the trips/holidays/days out that my wife wants to do, I can keep job as-is, contribute more to the house chores and be f*cked at the weekend or I can keep job-as is, we can do stuff at the weekend but the house is going to be less tidy. It feels like my wife doesn't recognise the connection between these different parts of our lives and just wants it all......which just isn't feasible. Someone's suggested counciling which I think sounds like a good way forward as we both feel badly done to and entrenched in our positions. 

The second more clear cut point.....they shouldn't be coming down and it's worse that one of the family members visiting is a member of the NHS. I've tried broaching it with my wife but she refuses to buckle, saying 'I'll just say they're my support bubble and my mental health will suffer if they dont come'. I get it, this year has been incredibly hard for her as a really social person and the COVID restrictions, but morally it just doesn't sit right with me that she is flexing the rules to suit her needs and me/my family are missing out. It's breaking the law and frankly, I feel like I'm losing a bit of respect for her.

She needs to grow up, quite frankly. If she wants everything 50/50, fine, you reduce your hours, she goes back to work in a job earning similar, and you can both contribute equally to finances, childcare and housework.

If she is expecting you to contribute more financially so she can have nice holidays etc but then also expects you to do 50/50 in the house, you need to tell her where to go, don't be a doormat!

As for breaking the COVID rules, unbelievable. It's been hard this year for everyone. Some people live alone, she should try thinking about them and the 60,000+ who've died instead of feeling sorry for herself and putting people's lives at risk. Lots of people aren't seeing their family this Christmas, we aren't, I'm not putting my parents' lives at risk just so we can share a turkey. We're delaying Christmas till Easter (hopefully - or maybe a summer xmas!)

Perhaps she wants the OP's company rather than the salary the OP could earn from a potential promotion? 

I had the foresight, back in February to INSIST, my mum learnt how to use Facetime & I thank all the Gods above that I did; yes the lockdown has been hard on her (she lives alone)  but without FaceTime she would have found it immeasurably harder (& in some ways it's made life more inclusive as I've been able to show her things) 

It's been her choice though to 'cancel' Christmas....(being extremely vulnerable) it's been her risk level that we've all adhered to. We also plan a February Christmas or whenever she's gets the jab ...which ever is the sooner.

We know nothing of the family's circumstances (have they been shielding since March for example) to pass judgment.

I just wonder how many people will be leaving London after tomorrow night for Christmas?

If the OP didn't earn enough to support his wife and family and keep her in the lifestyle she is now used to, she would probably end up looking for someone who can.

zagfles

gozaimasu said:

I'll be the first to suggest separate Christmases. As I see it, the tier3 etc rules don't apply during 23-27 December since 3 households can be in a bubble. She should go to her family and you should take the kids to your family. Some time apart might be just what you need.

Good idea, we know people who are doing similar. Obviously care is needed, for instance if school age kids I wouldn't take them to see elderly grandparents as kids are still mingling in schools at the moment. But in this case with pre-school kids should be safer assuming they've not been mixing with other households.

gettingtheresometime

burlingtonfl6 said:

gettingtheresometime said:

zagfles said:

ManicRower said:

Thank you to everyone who has responded, I really do appreciate it. A lot of food for thought, just to answer a couple of questions and clarify a few points:
- I'm a Management Consultant so 45-50hr weeks is the norm and that is manageable. It just happens that this is a real stinker of a client and a hospital pass of a job role. This role has been about ~60hrs a week on average for the last 12 months but I've scaled back to 'only' 50-55hrs in the last month or so whilst I try and plot an exit route from this client. 
- I'm focused on achieving the promotion because 1) It's pretty much my 'life' outside of being a Dad and Husband so it gives me a bit of structure/focus, and 2) It's worth about £25k per annum, enough for one of us to then reduce our hours in support of the other and hopefully make things more manageable for us as a family/couple going forward. 
- I fully agree my wife does the most of the household chores......I guess I see that as 'fair' at the moment (rightly or wrongly) given I am at work and I do contribute.....even if the split is 70/30ish her way. I agree that I am going to have to do more when my wife goes back to work and get that split to 50/50 so that she can press on with her career if that's what she wants to do. 

I guess where I personally am struggling is the lack of compromise, i.e. I can reduce my hours and contribute more to the running of the house.....but we won't have as much spare cash to go on the trips/holidays/days out that my wife wants to do, I can keep job as-is, contribute more to the house chores and be f*cked at the weekend or I can keep job-as is, we can do stuff at the weekend but the house is going to be less tidy. It feels like my wife doesn't recognise the connection between these different parts of our lives and just wants it all......which just isn't feasible. Someone's suggested counciling which I think sounds like a good way forward as we both feel badly done to and entrenched in our positions. 

The second more clear cut point.....they shouldn't be coming down and it's worse that one of the family members visiting is a member of the NHS. I've tried broaching it with my wife but she refuses to buckle, saying 'I'll just say they're my support bubble and my mental health will suffer if they dont come'. I get it, this year has been incredibly hard for her as a really social person and the COVID restrictions, but morally it just doesn't sit right with me that she is flexing the rules to suit her needs and me/my family are missing out. It's breaking the law and frankly, I feel like I'm losing a bit of respect for her.

She needs to grow up, quite frankly. If she wants everything 50/50, fine, you reduce your hours, she goes back to work in a job earning similar, and you can both contribute equally to finances, childcare and housework.

If she is expecting you to contribute more financially so she can have nice holidays etc but then also expects you to do 50/50 in the house, you need to tell her where to go, don't be a doormat!

As for breaking the COVID rules, unbelievable. It's been hard this year for everyone. Some people live alone, she should try thinking about them and the 60,000+ who've died instead of feeling sorry for herself and putting people's lives at risk. Lots of people aren't seeing their family this Christmas, we aren't, I'm not putting my parents' lives at risk just so we can share a turkey. We're delaying Christmas till Easter (hopefully - or maybe a summer xmas!)

Perhaps she wants the OP's company rather than the salary the OP could earn from a potential promotion? 

I had the foresight, back in February to INSIST, my mum learnt how to use Facetime & I thank all the Gods above that I did; yes the lockdown has been hard on her (she lives alone)  but without FaceTime she would have found it immeasurably harder (& in some ways it's made life more inclusive as I've been able to show her things) 

It's been her choice though to 'cancel' Christmas....(being extremely vulnerable) it's been her risk level that we've all adhered to. We also plan a February Christmas or whenever she's gets the jab ...which ever is the sooner.

We know nothing of the family's circumstances (have they been shielding since March for example) to pass judgment.

I just wonder how many people will be leaving London after tomorrow night for Christmas?

If the OP didn't earn enough to support his wife and family and keep her in the lifestyle she is now used to, she would probably end up looking for someone who can.

Well that assumes the OP's wife isn't in a similar earning profession. To me this doesn't sound like the wife wants to be a lady of leisure....she sounds as if she wants a family life.

zagfles

gettingtheresometime said:

burlingtonfl6 said:

gettingtheresometime said:

zagfles said:

ManicRower said:

Thank you to everyone who has responded, I really do appreciate it. A lot of food for thought, just to answer a couple of questions and clarify a few points:
- I'm a Management Consultant so 45-50hr weeks is the norm and that is manageable. It just happens that this is a real stinker of a client and a hospital pass of a job role. This role has been about ~60hrs a week on average for the last 12 months but I've scaled back to 'only' 50-55hrs in the last month or so whilst I try and plot an exit route from this client. 
- I'm focused on achieving the promotion because 1) It's pretty much my 'life' outside of being a Dad and Husband so it gives me a bit of structure/focus, and 2) It's worth about £25k per annum, enough for one of us to then reduce our hours in support of the other and hopefully make things more manageable for us as a family/couple going forward. 
- I fully agree my wife does the most of the household chores......I guess I see that as 'fair' at the moment (rightly or wrongly) given I am at work and I do contribute.....even if the split is 70/30ish her way. I agree that I am going to have to do more when my wife goes back to work and get that split to 50/50 so that she can press on with her career if that's what she wants to do. 

I guess where I personally am struggling is the lack of compromise, i.e. I can reduce my hours and contribute more to the running of the house.....but we won't have as much spare cash to go on the trips/holidays/days out that my wife wants to do, I can keep job as-is, contribute more to the house chores and be f*cked at the weekend or I can keep job-as is, we can do stuff at the weekend but the house is going to be less tidy. It feels like my wife doesn't recognise the connection between these different parts of our lives and just wants it all......which just isn't feasible. Someone's suggested counciling which I think sounds like a good way forward as we both feel badly done to and entrenched in our positions. 

The second more clear cut point.....they shouldn't be coming down and it's worse that one of the family members visiting is a member of the NHS. I've tried broaching it with my wife but she refuses to buckle, saying 'I'll just say they're my support bubble and my mental health will suffer if they dont come'. I get it, this year has been incredibly hard for her as a really social person and the COVID restrictions, but morally it just doesn't sit right with me that she is flexing the rules to suit her needs and me/my family are missing out. It's breaking the law and frankly, I feel like I'm losing a bit of respect for her.

She needs to grow up, quite frankly. If she wants everything 50/50, fine, you reduce your hours, she goes back to work in a job earning similar, and you can both contribute equally to finances, childcare and housework.

If she is expecting you to contribute more financially so she can have nice holidays etc but then also expects you to do 50/50 in the house, you need to tell her where to go, don't be a doormat!

As for breaking the COVID rules, unbelievable. It's been hard this year for everyone. Some people live alone, she should try thinking about them and the 60,000+ who've died instead of feeling sorry for herself and putting people's lives at risk. Lots of people aren't seeing their family this Christmas, we aren't, I'm not putting my parents' lives at risk just so we can share a turkey. We're delaying Christmas till Easter (hopefully - or maybe a summer xmas!)

Perhaps she wants the OP's company rather than the salary the OP could earn from a potential promotion? 

I had the foresight, back in February to INSIST, my mum learnt how to use Facetime & I thank all the Gods above that I did; yes the lockdown has been hard on her (she lives alone)  but without FaceTime she would have found it immeasurably harder (& in some ways it's made life more inclusive as I've been able to show her things) 

It's been her choice though to 'cancel' Christmas....(being extremely vulnerable) it's been her risk level that we've all adhered to. We also plan a February Christmas or whenever she's gets the jab ...which ever is the sooner.

We know nothing of the family's circumstances (have they been shielding since March for example) to pass judgment.

I just wonder how many people will be leaving London after tomorrow night for Christmas?

If the OP didn't earn enough to support his wife and family and keep her in the lifestyle she is now used to, she would probably end up looking for someone who can.

Well that assumes the OP's wife isn't in a similar earning profession. To me this doesn't sound like the wife wants to be a lady of leisure....she sounds as if she wants a family life.

It can be hard going from a situation of a couple with no kids both in well paid employment to a situation where there is less income because one/both have reduced hours, and/or childcare costs, plus less leisure time. I think the best way to approach it is to start from a default assumption of equality. You are both equally responsible for looking after the kids, for paying the bills, for cooking the dinner, for keeping the house clean etc. So you should both contribute equally to the family finances, childcare and housework.

Of course for many couples another arragement may be better, eg one might be better at childcare, housework, the other might be better at earning. And of course some people will prefer working in the home to outside and vv. But if you start from the principle of equality as the default, any variation should be agreed by both because both are happy with another split of responsibilites. But either should have the right to revert to the default 50/50 split in everything.

Pretty much what my wife and I did. When our kids were pre-school, I was perfectly happy (in fact at one stage I really wanted) to go part time and share everything, but in the end it worked out much better for both of us for me to work full time on shifts (which worked great with pre-school kids, as you get to take them to activities) and my wife to be a SAH mum. I did zero housework, she did zero money earning work, and we shared childcare as best we could. But that was always with the proviso that 50/50 was an inherant right for either of us, so if either of us weren't happy we would revert to that.

burlingtonfl6

gettingtheresometime said:

burlingtonfl6 said:

gettingtheresometime said:

zagfles said:

ManicRower said:

Thank you to everyone who has responded, I really do appreciate it. A lot of food for thought, just to answer a couple of questions and clarify a few points:
- I'm a Management Consultant so 45-50hr weeks is the norm and that is manageable. It just happens that this is a real stinker of a client and a hospital pass of a job role. This role has been about ~60hrs a week on average for the last 12 months but I've scaled back to 'only' 50-55hrs in the last month or so whilst I try and plot an exit route from this client. 
- I'm focused on achieving the promotion because 1) It's pretty much my 'life' outside of being a Dad and Husband so it gives me a bit of structure/focus, and 2) It's worth about £25k per annum, enough for one of us to then reduce our hours in support of the other and hopefully make things more manageable for us as a family/couple going forward. 
- I fully agree my wife does the most of the household chores......I guess I see that as 'fair' at the moment (rightly or wrongly) given I am at work and I do contribute.....even if the split is 70/30ish her way. I agree that I am going to have to do more when my wife goes back to work and get that split to 50/50 so that she can press on with her career if that's what she wants to do. 

I guess where I personally am struggling is the lack of compromise, i.e. I can reduce my hours and contribute more to the running of the house.....but we won't have as much spare cash to go on the trips/holidays/days out that my wife wants to do, I can keep job as-is, contribute more to the house chores and be f*cked at the weekend or I can keep job-as is, we can do stuff at the weekend but the house is going to be less tidy. It feels like my wife doesn't recognise the connection between these different parts of our lives and just wants it all......which just isn't feasible. Someone's suggested counciling which I think sounds like a good way forward as we both feel badly done to and entrenched in our positions. 

The second more clear cut point.....they shouldn't be coming down and it's worse that one of the family members visiting is a member of the NHS. I've tried broaching it with my wife but she refuses to buckle, saying 'I'll just say they're my support bubble and my mental health will suffer if they dont come'. I get it, this year has been incredibly hard for her as a really social person and the COVID restrictions, but morally it just doesn't sit right with me that she is flexing the rules to suit her needs and me/my family are missing out. It's breaking the law and frankly, I feel like I'm losing a bit of respect for her.

She needs to grow up, quite frankly. If she wants everything 50/50, fine, you reduce your hours, she goes back to work in a job earning similar, and you can both contribute equally to finances, childcare and housework.

If she is expecting you to contribute more financially so she can have nice holidays etc but then also expects you to do 50/50 in the house, you need to tell her where to go, don't be a doormat!

As for breaking the COVID rules, unbelievable. It's been hard this year for everyone. Some people live alone, she should try thinking about them and the 60,000+ who've died instead of feeling sorry for herself and putting people's lives at risk. Lots of people aren't seeing their family this Christmas, we aren't, I'm not putting my parents' lives at risk just so we can share a turkey. We're delaying Christmas till Easter (hopefully - or maybe a summer xmas!)

Perhaps she wants the OP's company rather than the salary the OP could earn from a potential promotion? 

I had the foresight, back in February to INSIST, my mum learnt how to use Facetime & I thank all the Gods above that I did; yes the lockdown has been hard on her (she lives alone)  but without FaceTime she would have found it immeasurably harder (& in some ways it's made life more inclusive as I've been able to show her things) 

It's been her choice though to 'cancel' Christmas....(being extremely vulnerable) it's been her risk level that we've all adhered to. We also plan a February Christmas or whenever she's gets the jab ...which ever is the sooner.

We know nothing of the family's circumstances (have they been shielding since March for example) to pass judgment.

I just wonder how many people will be leaving London after tomorrow night for Christmas?

If the OP didn't earn enough to support his wife and family and keep her in the lifestyle she is now used to, she would probably end up looking for someone who can.

Well that assumes the OP's wife isn't in a similar earning profession. To me this doesn't sound like the wife wants to be a lady of leisure....she sounds as if she wants a family life.

The bills still need paying. It's a balancing act and his wife can't have it all!

thepurplepixie

I think you do alot considering you work 60 hrs a week.  Personally I think if one parent is at home and one is working 60 hrs a week it isn't reasonable to share the nights.  Yes children can be a handful but no commute, you doing the drop offs and pick ups and children do have downtime and she should take a break then.  What does she want you to do, apart from out and about at weekends?  
However it is a bit different when she goes back to work, some pressure might come off as she might appreciate some quiet weekends herself then.
Can you afford a cleaner every week?  Might be a game changer.  
Will your 60 hrs drop if you move to a new client/get the promotion?  Have you talked about you stepping back at work, would she be happy with you earning less, if you worked a 35 hr week you'd have more time and energy but probably less money and less career progression.

Aranyani

gozaimasu said:

I'll be the first to suggest separate Christmases. As I see it, the tier3 etc rules don't apply during 23-27 December since 3 households can be in a bubble. She should go to her family and you should take the kids to your family. Some time apart might be just what you need.

She probably won't want to spend christmas separated from her young children, especially as its the baby's first. 

gettingtheresometime

burlingtonfl6 said:

gettingtheresometime said:

burlingtonfl6 said:

gettingtheresometime said:

zagfles said:

ManicRower said:

Thank you to everyone who has responded, I really do appreciate it. A lot of food for thought, just to answer a couple of questions and clarify a few points:
- I'm a Management Consultant so 45-50hr weeks is the norm and that is manageable. It just happens that this is a real stinker of a client and a hospital pass of a job role. This role has been about ~60hrs a week on average for the last 12 months but I've scaled back to 'only' 50-55hrs in the last month or so whilst I try and plot an exit route from this client. 
- I'm focused on achieving the promotion because 1) It's pretty much my 'life' outside of being a Dad and Husband so it gives me a bit of structure/focus, and 2) It's worth about £25k per annum, enough for one of us to then reduce our hours in support of the other and hopefully make things more manageable for us as a family/couple going forward. 
- I fully agree my wife does the most of the household chores......I guess I see that as 'fair' at the moment (rightly or wrongly) given I am at work and I do contribute.....even if the split is 70/30ish her way. I agree that I am going to have to do more when my wife goes back to work and get that split to 50/50 so that she can press on with her career if that's what she wants to do. 

I guess where I personally am struggling is the lack of compromise, i.e. I can reduce my hours and contribute more to the running of the house.....but we won't have as much spare cash to go on the trips/holidays/days out that my wife wants to do, I can keep job as-is, contribute more to the house chores and be f*cked at the weekend or I can keep job-as is, we can do stuff at the weekend but the house is going to be less tidy. It feels like my wife doesn't recognise the connection between these different parts of our lives and just wants it all......which just isn't feasible. Someone's suggested counciling which I think sounds like a good way forward as we both feel badly done to and entrenched in our positions. 

The second more clear cut point.....they shouldn't be coming down and it's worse that one of the family members visiting is a member of the NHS. I've tried broaching it with my wife but she refuses to buckle, saying 'I'll just say they're my support bubble and my mental health will suffer if they dont come'. I get it, this year has been incredibly hard for her as a really social person and the COVID restrictions, but morally it just doesn't sit right with me that she is flexing the rules to suit her needs and me/my family are missing out. It's breaking the law and frankly, I feel like I'm losing a bit of respect for her.

She needs to grow up, quite frankly. If she wants everything 50/50, fine, you reduce your hours, she goes back to work in a job earning similar, and you can both contribute equally to finances, childcare and housework.

If she is expecting you to contribute more financially so she can have nice holidays etc but then also expects you to do 50/50 in the house, you need to tell her where to go, don't be a doormat!

As for breaking the COVID rules, unbelievable. It's been hard this year for everyone. Some people live alone, she should try thinking about them and the 60,000+ who've died instead of feeling sorry for herself and putting people's lives at risk. Lots of people aren't seeing their family this Christmas, we aren't, I'm not putting my parents' lives at risk just so we can share a turkey. We're delaying Christmas till Easter (hopefully - or maybe a summer xmas!)

Perhaps she wants the OP's company rather than the salary the OP could earn from a potential promotion? 

I had the foresight, back in February to INSIST, my mum learnt how to use Facetime & I thank all the Gods above that I did; yes the lockdown has been hard on her (she lives alone)  but without FaceTime she would have found it immeasurably harder (& in some ways it's made life more inclusive as I've been able to show her things) 

It's been her choice though to 'cancel' Christmas....(being extremely vulnerable) it's been her risk level that we've all adhered to. We also plan a February Christmas or whenever she's gets the jab ...which ever is the sooner.

We know nothing of the family's circumstances (have they been shielding since March for example) to pass judgment.

I just wonder how many people will be leaving London after tomorrow night for Christmas?

If the OP didn't earn enough to support his wife and family and keep her in the lifestyle she is now used to, she would probably end up looking for someone who can.

Well that assumes the OP's wife isn't in a similar earning profession. To me this doesn't sound like the wife wants to be a lady of leisure....she sounds as if she wants a family life.

The bills still need paying. It's a balancing act and his wife can't have it all!

Did you miss the bit where the OP said his wife would be going back to work full time in January?