How to Fix Marriage

Aranyani

zagfles said:

Aranyani said:

zagfles said:

elsien said:

People can choose to opt out of the working time directive. I would never work a 60 hour week but in some jobs that is the norm for people who want to get ahead, as is putting time in on evenings and weekends. All part of the balance OP and  his wife need to decide about. 

No decent employer would expect a 60 hour week. People who work those sorts of hours are either being taken advantage of or they're not really up to the job so they take a long time to get it done. Those who get ahead aren't generally those who work long hours, it's those who "work smarter" rather than "work harder", as the old cliche goes.

Some employers do have a toxic culture of excessive hours and viewing those who want a normal working week and some work-life balance as less committed, or lazy.  These are not the employers that somebody with two very young children should be working for though. 

They're not employers anyone should be working for.

I don’t disagree  

Aranyani

annabanana82 said:

Lots of security guards do 5x12 hour shifts, often minimum wage and often people that would struggle to pick up other work easily or see the same income on on a third less hours

That just reinforces that minimum wage is too low. 

HampshireH

pinkshoes said:

ManicRower said:

- In terms of responsibilities outside of work I do the drop-off/collections from nursery, I sort the bins, I do the washing up, I get the shopping, I put our eldest to bed. We share responsibilities of getting up in the night if the children wake up, and sometimes I do some washing. My wife currently handles pretty much everything else so very much the lions share; all cooking/tidying, looking after our youngest, breakfast/lunch with kids, putting our youngest to bed, etc. We are fortunate enough to have a cleaner that comes once a fortnight. 
- My wife wants me to do more both in terms of household responsibilities, and then outside of that she wants to live at a busier pace of life that I am struggling to handle right now and COVID appears to have exacerbated. By the time it gets to the weekend I am absolutely knackered, would rather recharge inside with the 4 of us. My wife often sees this as 'lazy' 

Your wife sounds like a self entitled b*tch who clearly doesn't realise how lucky she is to have a husband that does so much despite working such long hours. 

I work 3 full days a week as a teacher. My other two days (6 hours whilst the kids are at school) I spend doing all my lesson planning, and the cleaning. I also do all the cooking, food shopping, childcare, tidying, homework with kids etc... I may as well be a single parent because my DH puts the bins out, and does the kids bath once a week (which involves sitting in the bathroom on his phone).

Your wife needs a reality check, and perhaps so do you over your career. Does she want to money to be able to afford to go out and do nice things, or would she rather you cut back your hours and have perhaps less money? She is clearly delusional!

You are so far from lazy this actually makes me really angry reading the above. 

I would suggest sending my husband to her for a couple of weeks and then she might appreciate how much you actually do for her and your family!!

Wow! Just Wow. How judgemental. Perhaps you should send your husband so he learns to appreciate that running a home and family shouldn't fall to one person and is a shared responsibility - because from your post he doesnt pull his weight.

The wife on maternity leave during a pandemic is likely to be feeling quite isolated and lonely. Especially if her husband is working 60 hours a week and she is home with the kids. It's not very mentally stimulating talking /entertaining a baby all day every day.

She will appreciate what he does to help but suggesting she is a self entitled b*tch for feeling like she wants to do something on a weekend and not sit around at home like she has had to all week is out of order.

2020 has been very restrictive for new mums who would normally have external support from groups or whatever and be getting out a lot more and making the most of their maternity leave.

OP needs to reduce his hours so he isn't having to bite his tongue at home because he is stressed, as the kids will pick up on this and it just exacerbates any problems which may already be there.

Compromise is key maybe one day out at the weekend one day in. Or as above alternate weekends out. Or give her a day a fortnight to herself. And you get one too.

OP the balance is there to be found. A few small changes and you could both be much happier. 

When your wife returns to work you will have to do a bit more and find that balance as otherwise things just won't get done as she won't being able to do it all and work full time too (if indeed it is full time) 

Guess the way of looking at it differently is if the shoe were on the other foot, would you be able to do it all and how would you feel? What would you want?

Finally her family should not be coming at Xmas. Just because they can doesn't mean they should.

ManicRower

Thank you to everyone who has responded, I really do appreciate it. A lot of food for thought, just to answer a couple of questions and clarify a few points:
- I'm a Management Consultant so 45-50hr weeks is the norm and that is manageable. It just happens that this is a real stinker of a client and a hospital pass of a job role. This role has been about ~60hrs a week on average for the last 12 months but I've scaled back to 'only' 50-55hrs in the last month or so whilst I try and plot an exit route from this client. 
- I'm focused on achieving the promotion because 1) It's pretty much my 'life' outside of being a Dad and Husband so it gives me a bit of structure/focus, and 2) It's worth about £25k per annum, enough for one of us to then reduce our hours in support of the other and hopefully make things more manageable for us as a family/couple going forward. 
- I fully agree my wife does the most of the household chores......I guess I see that as 'fair' at the moment (rightly or wrongly) given I am at work and I do contribute.....even if the split is 70/30ish her way. I agree that I am going to have to do more when my wife goes back to work and get that split to 50/50 so that she can press on with her career if that's what she wants to do. 

I guess where I personally am struggling is the lack of compromise, i.e. I can reduce my hours and contribute more to the running of the house.....but we won't have as much spare cash to go on the trips/holidays/days out that my wife wants to do, I can keep job as-is, contribute more to the house chores and be f*cked at the weekend or I can keep job-as is, we can do stuff at the weekend but the house is going to be less tidy. It feels like my wife doesn't recognise the connection between these different parts of our lives and just wants it all......which just isn't feasible. Someone's suggested counciling which I think sounds like a good way forward as we both feel badly done to and entrenched in our positions. 

The second more clear cut point.....they shouldn't be coming down and it's worse that one of the family members visiting is a member of the NHS. I've tried broaching it with my wife but she refuses to buckle, saying 'I'll just say they're my support bubble and my mental health will suffer if they dont come'. I get it, this year has been incredibly hard for her as a really social person and the COVID restrictions, but morally it just doesn't sit right with me that she is flexing the rules to suit her needs and me/my family are missing out. It's breaking the law and frankly, I feel like I'm losing a bit of respect for her.

pjcox2005

Do you have a budget for the household? Many people just fritter money when they could be sharper (although I appreciate probably proportionally less on this forum!) so I wonder whether you review and reconsider what's important to you. Perhaps for example having the luxury of a cleaner shifts part of the problem as they can do more of the time consuming clean, your wife has more time to parent rather than worrying about jobs and you have more time to relax after work. I appreciate it doesn't sound moneysaving but if it's just being a tighter on food shop or cancelling a membership you don't use then may be very worthwhile.

[Deleted User]

ManicRower said:

Thank you to everyone who has responded, I really do appreciate it. A lot of food for thought, just to answer a couple of questions and clarify a few points:
- I'm a Management Consultant so 45-50hr weeks is the norm and that is manageable. It just happens that this is a real stinker of a client and a hospital pass of a job role. This role has been about ~60hrs a week on average for the last 12 months but I've scaled back to 'only' 50-55hrs in the last month or so whilst I try and plot an exit route from this client. 
- I'm focused on achieving the promotion because 1) It's pretty much my 'life' outside of being a Dad and Husband so it gives me a bit of structure/focus, and 2) It's worth about £25k per annum, enough for one of us to then reduce our hours in support of the other and hopefully make things more manageable for us as a family/couple going forward. 
- I fully agree my wife does the most of the household chores......I guess I see that as 'fair' at the moment (rightly or wrongly) given I am at work and I do contribute.....even if the split is 70/30ish her way. I agree that I am going to have to do more when my wife goes back to work and get that split to 50/50 so that she can press on with her career if that's what she wants to do. 

I guess where I personally am struggling is the lack of compromise, i.e. I can reduce my hours and contribute more to the running of the house.....but we won't have as much spare cash to go on the trips/holidays/days out that my wife wants to do, I can keep job as-is, contribute more to the house chores and be f*cked at the weekend or I can keep job-as is, we can do stuff at the weekend but the house is going to be less tidy. It feels like my wife doesn't recognise the connection between these different parts of our lives and just wants it all......which just isn't feasible. Someone's suggested counciling which I think sounds like a good way forward as we both feel badly done to and entrenched in our positions. 

The second more clear cut point.....they shouldn't be coming down and it's worse that one of the family members visiting is a member of the NHS. I've tried broaching it with my wife but she refuses to buckle, saying 'I'll just say they're my support bubble and my mental health will suffer if they dont come'. I get it, this year has been incredibly hard for her as a really social person and the COVID restrictions, but morally it just doesn't sit right with me that she is flexing the rules to suit her needs and me/my family are missing out. It's breaking the law and frankly, I feel like I'm losing a bit of respect for her.

What is your wife’s life outside of being a wife and mother? Should you get the promotion which one of you do you envisage reducing their working hours in order to support the other? 

Do you have a household a budget so you can both see where the money is going and how much is available for things like holidays and trips out?  How will the money situation be when your wife returns to work and you need to pay for childcare? 

I can see why your wife wants her family there for Christmas, 2020 must have been difficult being cooped up all day with two young children whilst you get out and about and your family can come and visit, but I don’t necessarily agree with breaking the lockdown rules in order to see them. 

Counselling does seem a good idea if you’re both feeling hard done by and entrenched in your positions. 

zagfles

ManicRower said:

Thank you to everyone who has responded, I really do appreciate it. A lot of food for thought, just to answer a couple of questions and clarify a few points:
- I'm a Management Consultant so 45-50hr weeks is the norm and that is manageable. It just happens that this is a real stinker of a client and a hospital pass of a job role. This role has been about ~60hrs a week on average for the last 12 months but I've scaled back to 'only' 50-55hrs in the last month or so whilst I try and plot an exit route from this client. 
- I'm focused on achieving the promotion because 1) It's pretty much my 'life' outside of being a Dad and Husband so it gives me a bit of structure/focus, and 2) It's worth about £25k per annum, enough for one of us to then reduce our hours in support of the other and hopefully make things more manageable for us as a family/couple going forward. 
- I fully agree my wife does the most of the household chores......I guess I see that as 'fair' at the moment (rightly or wrongly) given I am at work and I do contribute.....even if the split is 70/30ish her way. I agree that I am going to have to do more when my wife goes back to work and get that split to 50/50 so that she can press on with her career if that's what she wants to do. 

I guess where I personally am struggling is the lack of compromise, i.e. I can reduce my hours and contribute more to the running of the house.....but we won't have as much spare cash to go on the trips/holidays/days out that my wife wants to do, I can keep job as-is, contribute more to the house chores and be f*cked at the weekend or I can keep job-as is, we can do stuff at the weekend but the house is going to be less tidy. It feels like my wife doesn't recognise the connection between these different parts of our lives and just wants it all......which just isn't feasible. Someone's suggested counciling which I think sounds like a good way forward as we both feel badly done to and entrenched in our positions. 

The second more clear cut point.....they shouldn't be coming down and it's worse that one of the family members visiting is a member of the NHS. I've tried broaching it with my wife but she refuses to buckle, saying 'I'll just say they're my support bubble and my mental health will suffer if they dont come'. I get it, this year has been incredibly hard for her as a really social person and the COVID restrictions, but morally it just doesn't sit right with me that she is flexing the rules to suit her needs and me/my family are missing out. It's breaking the law and frankly, I feel like I'm losing a bit of respect for her.

She needs to grow up, quite frankly. If she wants everything 50/50, fine, you reduce your hours, she goes back to work in a job earning similar, and you can both contribute equally to finances, childcare and housework.

If she is expecting you to contribute more financially so she can have nice holidays etc but then also expects you to do 50/50 in the house, you need to tell her where to go, don't be a doormat!

As for breaking the COVID rules, unbelievable. It's been hard this year for everyone. Some people live alone, she should try thinking about them and the 60,000+ who've died instead of feeling sorry for herself and putting people's lives at risk. Lots of people aren't seeing their family this Christmas, we aren't, I'm not putting my parents' lives at risk just so we can share a turkey. We're delaying Christmas till Easter (hopefully - or maybe a summer xmas!)

gettingtheresometime

zagfles said:

ManicRower said:

Thank you to everyone who has responded, I really do appreciate it. A lot of food for thought, just to answer a couple of questions and clarify a few points:
- I'm a Management Consultant so 45-50hr weeks is the norm and that is manageable. It just happens that this is a real stinker of a client and a hospital pass of a job role. This role has been about ~60hrs a week on average for the last 12 months but I've scaled back to 'only' 50-55hrs in the last month or so whilst I try and plot an exit route from this client. 
- I'm focused on achieving the promotion because 1) It's pretty much my 'life' outside of being a Dad and Husband so it gives me a bit of structure/focus, and 2) It's worth about £25k per annum, enough for one of us to then reduce our hours in support of the other and hopefully make things more manageable for us as a family/couple going forward. 
- I fully agree my wife does the most of the household chores......I guess I see that as 'fair' at the moment (rightly or wrongly) given I am at work and I do contribute.....even if the split is 70/30ish her way. I agree that I am going to have to do more when my wife goes back to work and get that split to 50/50 so that she can press on with her career if that's what she wants to do. 

I guess where I personally am struggling is the lack of compromise, i.e. I can reduce my hours and contribute more to the running of the house.....but we won't have as much spare cash to go on the trips/holidays/days out that my wife wants to do, I can keep job as-is, contribute more to the house chores and be f*cked at the weekend or I can keep job-as is, we can do stuff at the weekend but the house is going to be less tidy. It feels like my wife doesn't recognise the connection between these different parts of our lives and just wants it all......which just isn't feasible. Someone's suggested counciling which I think sounds like a good way forward as we both feel badly done to and entrenched in our positions. 

The second more clear cut point.....they shouldn't be coming down and it's worse that one of the family members visiting is a member of the NHS. I've tried broaching it with my wife but she refuses to buckle, saying 'I'll just say they're my support bubble and my mental health will suffer if they dont come'. I get it, this year has been incredibly hard for her as a really social person and the COVID restrictions, but morally it just doesn't sit right with me that she is flexing the rules to suit her needs and me/my family are missing out. It's breaking the law and frankly, I feel like I'm losing a bit of respect for her.

She needs to grow up, quite frankly. If she wants everything 50/50, fine, you reduce your hours, she goes back to work in a job earning similar, and you can both contribute equally to finances, childcare and housework.

If she is expecting you to contribute more financially so she can have nice holidays etc but then also expects you to do 50/50 in the house, you need to tell her where to go, don't be a doormat!

As for breaking the COVID rules, unbelievable. It's been hard this year for everyone. Some people live alone, she should try thinking about them and the 60,000+ who've died instead of feeling sorry for herself and putting people's lives at risk. Lots of people aren't seeing their family this Christmas, we aren't, I'm not putting my parents' lives at risk just so we can share a turkey. We're delaying Christmas till Easter (hopefully - or maybe a summer xmas!)

Perhaps she wants the OP's company rather than the salary the OP could earn from a potential promotion? 

I had the foresight, back in February to INSIST, my mum learnt how to use Facetime & I thank all the Gods above that I did; yes the lockdown has been hard on her (she lives alone)  but without FaceTime she would have found it immeasurably harder (& in some ways it's made life more inclusive as I've been able to show her things) 

It's been her choice though to 'cancel' Christmas....(being extremely vulnerable) it's been her risk level that we've all adhered to. We also plan a February Christmas or whenever she's gets the jab ...which ever is the sooner.

We know nothing of the family's circumstances (have they been shielding since March for example) to pass judgment.

I just wonder how many people will be leaving London after tomorrow night for Christmas?

zagfles

gettingtheresometime said:

zagfles said:

ManicRower said:

Thank you to everyone who has responded, I really do appreciate it. A lot of food for thought, just to answer a couple of questions and clarify a few points:
- I'm a Management Consultant so 45-50hr weeks is the norm and that is manageable. It just happens that this is a real stinker of a client and a hospital pass of a job role. This role has been about ~60hrs a week on average for the last 12 months but I've scaled back to 'only' 50-55hrs in the last month or so whilst I try and plot an exit route from this client. 
- I'm focused on achieving the promotion because 1) It's pretty much my 'life' outside of being a Dad and Husband so it gives me a bit of structure/focus, and 2) It's worth about £25k per annum, enough for one of us to then reduce our hours in support of the other and hopefully make things more manageable for us as a family/couple going forward. 
- I fully agree my wife does the most of the household chores......I guess I see that as 'fair' at the moment (rightly or wrongly) given I am at work and I do contribute.....even if the split is 70/30ish her way. I agree that I am going to have to do more when my wife goes back to work and get that split to 50/50 so that she can press on with her career if that's what she wants to do. 

I guess where I personally am struggling is the lack of compromise, i.e. I can reduce my hours and contribute more to the running of the house.....but we won't have as much spare cash to go on the trips/holidays/days out that my wife wants to do, I can keep job as-is, contribute more to the house chores and be f*cked at the weekend or I can keep job-as is, we can do stuff at the weekend but the house is going to be less tidy. It feels like my wife doesn't recognise the connection between these different parts of our lives and just wants it all......which just isn't feasible. Someone's suggested counciling which I think sounds like a good way forward as we both feel badly done to and entrenched in our positions. 

The second more clear cut point.....they shouldn't be coming down and it's worse that one of the family members visiting is a member of the NHS. I've tried broaching it with my wife but she refuses to buckle, saying 'I'll just say they're my support bubble and my mental health will suffer if they dont come'. I get it, this year has been incredibly hard for her as a really social person and the COVID restrictions, but morally it just doesn't sit right with me that she is flexing the rules to suit her needs and me/my family are missing out. It's breaking the law and frankly, I feel like I'm losing a bit of respect for her.

She needs to grow up, quite frankly. If she wants everything 50/50, fine, you reduce your hours, she goes back to work in a job earning similar, and you can both contribute equally to finances, childcare and housework.

If she is expecting you to contribute more financially so she can have nice holidays etc but then also expects you to do 50/50 in the house, you need to tell her where to go, don't be a doormat!

As for breaking the COVID rules, unbelievable. It's been hard this year for everyone. Some people live alone, she should try thinking about them and the 60,000+ who've died instead of feeling sorry for herself and putting people's lives at risk. Lots of people aren't seeing their family this Christmas, we aren't, I'm not putting my parents' lives at risk just so we can share a turkey. We're delaying Christmas till Easter (hopefully - or maybe a summer xmas!)

Perhaps she wants the OP's company rather than the salary the OP could earn from a potential promotion? 

Doesn't sound like it, OP wrote " guess where I personally am struggling is the lack of compromise, i.e. I can reduce my hours and contribute more to the running of the house.....but we won't have as much spare cash to go on the trips/holidays/days out that my wife wants to do,"
Of course we're only getting one side of the story, but the OP has posted for advice so we can only advise based on what he's posted.

[Deleted User]

zagfles said:

gettingtheresometime said:

zagfles said:

ManicRower said:

Thank you to everyone who has responded, I really do appreciate it. A lot of food for thought, just to answer a couple of questions and clarify a few points:
- I'm a Management Consultant so 45-50hr weeks is the norm and that is manageable. It just happens that this is a real stinker of a client and a hospital pass of a job role. This role has been about ~60hrs a week on average for the last 12 months but I've scaled back to 'only' 50-55hrs in the last month or so whilst I try and plot an exit route from this client. 
- I'm focused on achieving the promotion because 1) It's pretty much my 'life' outside of being a Dad and Husband so it gives me a bit of structure/focus, and 2) It's worth about £25k per annum, enough for one of us to then reduce our hours in support of the other and hopefully make things more manageable for us as a family/couple going forward. 
- I fully agree my wife does the most of the household chores......I guess I see that as 'fair' at the moment (rightly or wrongly) given I am at work and I do contribute.....even if the split is 70/30ish her way. I agree that I am going to have to do more when my wife goes back to work and get that split to 50/50 so that she can press on with her career if that's what she wants to do. 

I guess where I personally am struggling is the lack of compromise, i.e. I can reduce my hours and contribute more to the running of the house.....but we won't have as much spare cash to go on the trips/holidays/days out that my wife wants to do, I can keep job as-is, contribute more to the house chores and be f*cked at the weekend or I can keep job-as is, we can do stuff at the weekend but the house is going to be less tidy. It feels like my wife doesn't recognise the connection between these different parts of our lives and just wants it all......which just isn't feasible. Someone's suggested counciling which I think sounds like a good way forward as we both feel badly done to and entrenched in our positions. 

The second more clear cut point.....they shouldn't be coming down and it's worse that one of the family members visiting is a member of the NHS. I've tried broaching it with my wife but she refuses to buckle, saying 'I'll just say they're my support bubble and my mental health will suffer if they dont come'. I get it, this year has been incredibly hard for her as a really social person and the COVID restrictions, but morally it just doesn't sit right with me that she is flexing the rules to suit her needs and me/my family are missing out. It's breaking the law and frankly, I feel like I'm losing a bit of respect for her.

She needs to grow up, quite frankly. If she wants everything 50/50, fine, you reduce your hours, she goes back to work in a job earning similar, and you can both contribute equally to finances, childcare and housework.

If she is expecting you to contribute more financially so she can have nice holidays etc but then also expects you to do 50/50 in the house, you need to tell her where to go, don't be a doormat!

As for breaking the COVID rules, unbelievable. It's been hard this year for everyone. Some people live alone, she should try thinking about them and the 60,000+ who've died instead of feeling sorry for herself and putting people's lives at risk. Lots of people aren't seeing their family this Christmas, we aren't, I'm not putting my parents' lives at risk just so we can share a turkey. We're delaying Christmas till Easter (hopefully - or maybe a summer xmas!)

Perhaps she wants the OP's company rather than the salary the OP could earn from a potential promotion? 

Doesn't sound like it, OP wrote " guess where I personally am struggling is the lack of compromise, i.e. I can reduce my hours and contribute more to the running of the house.....but we won't have as much spare cash to go on the trips/holidays/days out that my wife wants to do,"
Of course we're only getting one side of the story, but the OP has posted for advice so we can only advise based on what he's posted.

Trips and days out don’t need to cost money or can be done cheaply. That is the MSE way after all.