BITCOIN

lozzy1965

Thanks for all the interesting comments on both sides of the argument above.  I won't do multiple quotes to answer each point I wish to comment on.  Just make a few responses below to continue this interesting debate:

MattMattMattUK: I am rather older than "in my 30's" .  With regard to 'innovation' I was commenting more on the fact that crypto is in my opinion, new-ish (albeit chugging along for 13 years so far) and is certainly innovative.  It may well come to nothing, or it may well change the world.  I am completely down the middle on this point.  I do believe that generally speaking, people are very slow to warm (no climate pun intended) to change (myself included).
A single world currency is a huge benefit in my opinion, but then I want to see one big happy unified world too!

Scottex99:  Always enjoy your comments - as one of the few from the 'other side of the discussion'.  Horrible link!!!  One of those ones where my back button doesn't let me leave the site to return from whence I came .  So, energy use isn't as big as it is implied, but it is still big surely?

Scottex99

Haha tbf I did a quick 10 second google just to see what came up, not my finest bit of research. But the banking industry uses more electricity than BTC right now, fact. 

Plus people suddenly massively care about BTC killing the world when they dont care about US/China companies pumping crap into the air every day?

My main take away is, it is very inefficient from an energy perspective but that can be fixed or made better by using waste energy or renewables. Plus ETH is going to Proof of Stake so there's a big reduction too.

No new coins/projects/protocols will be being made on POW for that reason.

Both sides of the argument are totally fine btw, as is being in the middle. I see the innovation every day from what I do for a living, make money directly from crypto trading, hold coins and am a shareholder in a company that was 4 guys when I joined 2.5 years ago and is now worth £55m (at current raise we're doing). So saying it's a Ponzi or worthless doesn't do it for me. Biggest financial institutions in the world are hardly going to be getting involved (yes I know, Madoff lol) if they thought there was any chance of it being an outright Ponzi

BTCGrey

Hi all - So, I have made a cataclysmic mistake and somehow I was taken in by all of this when someone "promoted" it to me as an investment of £200.00.

I did have some wariness to it but at the same time there was a bit of confidence to at least dipping my toe in it. 

I made my £200.00 "investment" through the initial company, but then the funds were transferred out immediately to one of the trading platforms. I spoke on the phone to the people who guided through the investment processes, but on one of their suggestions it there was quite a big negative-dip on the balance. They tried to reassure this would come good, but this is when it dawned on me that yes something was definitely amiss.

I stopped all trades, losing out probably around £50.00 on the investments. I went to withdraw using their website initially to my payment card but this was eventually "rejected" after a few days, claiming they can only withdraw to Bitcoin Wallets. I have had a very brief search about these Bitcoin Wallets in a vain effort to try and see if I can at least withdraw back to my payment card but this is were reality is dawning on me that I may have lost this entire lot.

Some of the websites offering this service only seem to do it as a "charge" service, so in the end I could be putting in further cash (With risk) without guarantee of any recompense. I am thankful it was only this miniscule amount to dip my toe in - But after being bitten this is something I would avoid but hopefully I can get some outcome on this.

eskbanker

BTCGrey said:

Hi all - So, I have made a cataclysmic mistake and somehow I was taken in by all of this when someone "promoted" it to me as an investment of £200.00.

[...]

But after being bitten this is something I would avoid but hopefully I can get some outcome on this.

Your experience really isn't anything to do with Bitcoin as such, in terms of the actual cryptocurrency discussed in this thread, but you've been scammed by some shady outfit lazily, but spuriously, tossing in the word 'bitcoin' to tempt in unsuspecting punters....

Adyinvestment

BTCGrey said:

Hi all - So, I have made a cataclysmic mistake and somehow I was taken in by all of this when someone "promoted" it to me as an investment of £200.00.

I did have some wariness to it but at the same time there was a bit of confidence to at least dipping my toe in it. 

I made my £200.00 "investment" through the initial company, but then the funds were transferred out immediately to one of the trading platforms. I spoke on the phone to the people who guided through the investment processes, but on one of their suggestions it there was quite a big negative-dip on the balance. They tried to reassure this would come good, but this is when it dawned on me that yes something was definitely amiss.

I stopped all trades, losing out probably around £50.00 on the investments. I went to withdraw using their website initially to my payment card but this was eventually "rejected" after a few days, claiming they can only withdraw to Bitcoin Wallets. I have had a very brief search about these Bitcoin Wallets in a vain effort to try and see if I can at least withdraw back to my payment card but this is were reality is dawning on me that I may have lost this entire lot.

Some of the websites offering this service only seem to do it as a "charge" service, so in the end I could be putting in further cash (With risk) without guarantee of any recompense. I am thankful it was only this miniscule amount to dip my toe in - But after being bitten this is something I would avoid but hopefully I can get some outcome on this.

Check out this recent thread - seem to be the exact same position (and amount) as you

Crypto experts — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Cus

When people think about how much money they can make on crypto investing, or how they can innovate a crypto related business that will make them financially successful do they think of that amount in crypto or fiat?

Thrugelmir

Cus said:

When people think about how much money they can make on crypto investing, or how they can innovate a crypto related business that will make them financially successful do they think of that amount in crypto or fiat?

Many moons ago. An ex girlfriends father ran an exotic car business. Recall one transaction he did. Where a nearly new Lotus Elite was exchanged for a swimming pool in the back garden. Value is in the eye of the beholder. 

Scottex99

Cus said:

When people think about how much money they can make on crypto investing, or how they can innovate a crypto related business that will make them financially successful do they think of that amount in crypto or fiat?

Either, both

Malthusian

BTCGrey said:

I stopped all trades, losing out probably around £50.00 on the investments. I went to withdraw using their website initially to my payment card but this was eventually "rejected" after a few days, claiming they can only withdraw to Bitcoin Wallets. I have had a very brief search about these Bitcoin Wallets in a vain effort to try and see if I can at least withdraw back to my payment card but this is were reality is dawning on me that I may have lost this entire lot.

You mention a payment card: if it is a credit card you should make a "section 75 claim" and if it is a debit card you should make a "chargeback". Chargebacks are less likely to succeed as refunds depend on the card issuer's own policies while section 75 claims are statutory consumer law. Either way, you tell the card issuer that you paid for cryptocurrency but it has not been delivered as it was a scam. There is a good chance they will reject the claim as "investment / gambling losses" - if so you should push back as paying for cryptocurrency and never receiving it is not the same thing as buying some cryptocurrency, receiving it and losing money on it.

Otherwise your £200 is gone. Walk away and change your email address and phone number as you are on a suckers list, and could otherwise get scammed again in the future.

If anyone claims they can get your £200 back it is a scam.

bugbyte_2

Malthusian said:

BTCGrey said:

I stopped all trades, losing out probably around £50.00 on the investments. I went to withdraw using their website initially to my payment card but this was eventually "rejected" after a few days, claiming they can only withdraw to Bitcoin Wallets. I have had a very brief search about these Bitcoin Wallets in a vain effort to try and see if I can at least withdraw back to my payment card but this is were reality is dawning on me that I may have lost this entire lot.

You mention a payment card: if it is a credit card you should make a "section 75 claim" and if it is a debit card you should make a "chargeback". Chargebacks are less likely to succeed as refunds depend on the card issuer's own policies while section 75 claims are statutory consumer law. Either way, you tell the card issuer that you paid for cryptocurrency but it has not been delivered as it was a scam. There is a good chance they will reject the claim as "investment / gambling losses" - if so you should push back as paying for cryptocurrency and never receiving it is not the same thing as buying some cryptocurrency, receiving it and losing money on it.

Otherwise your £200 is gone. Walk away and change your email address and phone number as you are on a suckers list, and could otherwise get scammed again in the future.

If anyone claims they can get your £200 back it is a scam.

Feel sorry for BTCGrey, but doesn't using the rights and protections of government and the Fiat banking system kind of fly in the face of the whole 'government cant see what I'm doing' philosophy? If we did all move over to Cripto who would pay for these protections, or health or education for that matter?