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BITCOIN
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MattMattMattUK said:lozzy1965 said:lozzy1965 said:
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” Attributed, rightly or wrongly, to Henry Ford.
It's how we end up with things that we never realised we couldn't do without.
Crypto currency mining and the technology behind it all (blockchain) is incredibly inefficient. Mining a BitCoin generates around 700kg of CO2, that is roughly equivalent to 2.5 months CO2 production for the average European (or 1.2 months for the average American). Processing one BitCoin transaction uses as much electricity as 1.5 million bank transfers (or Visa/Mastercard/Amex transactions). Cryptocurrency is not solving a problem and it has no viable long term implementations, indeed if it were used for UK banking we would need to double the amount of power production in the UK to power the data centres just to handle the transactions (Bitcoin alone, mining and transactions currently consume more than twice the electricity the UK uses in a year and Bitcoin now makes up less than a third of total crypto energy consumption).lozzy1965 said:
We may well be looking back in 10 or 20 years time saying, "Currencies, can you believe that used to be a thing?"lozzy1965 said:
A bit like what the Euro was supposed to be. You know, not having to change currency just because you are going on holiday to another country!!!lozzy1965 said:Us youngsterssee that kind of thing as a benefit!
BTC isn’t the whole crypto market and probably less than 10 major coins use a POW system. ETH the 2nd biggest coin is in the process of transitioning to POS this year.
A few myths debunked too: https://www.verdict.co.uk/bitcoin-mining-uses-very-little-energy/
No intrinsic value? Wrong.
Only created to make early adopters money? Wrong.
Has few real world applications? Wrong.
Mining being pointless? Lol, wrong. Energy intensive yes but pointless no. That’s how Satoshi solved the double spend problem and paved the way for decentralised digital money.
If you don’t like crypto that’s cool but don’t spout nonsense like you actually know anything about it. Cheers
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Thanks for all the interesting comments on both sides of the argument above. I won't do multiple quotes to answer each point I wish to comment on. Just make a few responses below to continue this interesting debate:
MattMattMattUK: I am rather older than "in my 30's". With regard to 'innovation' I was commenting more on the fact that crypto is in my opinion, new-ish (albeit chugging along for 13 years so far) and is certainly innovative. It may well come to nothing, or it may well change the world. I am completely down the middle on this point. I do believe that generally speaking, people are very slow to warm (no climate pun intended) to change (myself included).
A single world currency is a huge benefit in my opinion, but then I want to see one big happy unified world too!
Scottex99: Always enjoy your comments - as one of the few from the 'other side of the discussion'. Horrible link!!! One of those ones where my back button doesn't let me leave the site to return from whence I came. So, energy use isn't as big as it is implied, but it is still big surely?
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Haha tbf I did a quick 10 second google just to see what came up, not my finest bit of research. But the banking industry uses more electricity than BTC right now, fact.
Plus people suddenly massively care about BTC killing the world when they dont care about US/China companies pumping crap into the air every day?
My main take away is, it is very inefficient from an energy perspective but that can be fixed or made better by using waste energy or renewables. Plus ETH is going to Proof of Stake so there's a big reduction too.
No new coins/projects/protocols will be being made on POW for that reason.
Both sides of the argument are totally fine btw, as is being in the middle. I see the innovation every day from what I do for a living, make money directly from crypto trading, hold coins and am a shareholder in a company that was 4 guys when I joined 2.5 years ago and is now worth £55m (at current raise we're doing). So saying it's a Ponzi or worthless doesn't do it for me. Biggest financial institutions in the world are hardly going to be getting involved (yes I know, Madoff lol) if they thought there was any chance of it being an outright Ponzi
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Hi all - So, I have made a cataclysmic mistake and somehow I was taken in by all of this when someone "promoted" it to me as an investment of £200.00.
I did have some wariness to it but at the same time there was a bit of confidence to at least dipping my toe in it.
I made my £200.00 "investment" through the initial company, but then the funds were transferred out immediately to one of the trading platforms. I spoke on the phone to the people who guided through the investment processes, but on one of their suggestions it there was quite a big negative-dip on the balance. They tried to reassure this would come good, but this is when it dawned on me that yes something was definitely amiss.
I stopped all trades, losing out probably around £50.00 on the investments. I went to withdraw using their website initially to my payment card but this was eventually "rejected" after a few days, claiming they can only withdraw to Bitcoin Wallets. I have had a very brief search about these Bitcoin Wallets in a vain effort to try and see if I can at least withdraw back to my payment card but this is were reality is dawning on me that I may have lost this entire lot.
Some of the websites offering this service only seem to do it as a "charge" service, so in the end I could be putting in further cash (With risk) without guarantee of any recompense. I am thankful it was only this miniscule amount to dip my toe in - But after being bitten this is something I would avoid but hopefully I can get some outcome on this.0 -
BTCGrey said:Hi all - So, I have made a cataclysmic mistake and somehow I was taken in by all of this when someone "promoted" it to me as an investment of £200.00.
[...]
But after being bitten this is something I would avoid but hopefully I can get some outcome on this.2 -
BTCGrey said:Hi all - So, I have made a cataclysmic mistake and somehow I was taken in by all of this when someone "promoted" it to me as an investment of £200.00.
I did have some wariness to it but at the same time there was a bit of confidence to at least dipping my toe in it.
I made my £200.00 "investment" through the initial company, but then the funds were transferred out immediately to one of the trading platforms. I spoke on the phone to the people who guided through the investment processes, but on one of their suggestions it there was quite a big negative-dip on the balance. They tried to reassure this would come good, but this is when it dawned on me that yes something was definitely amiss.
I stopped all trades, losing out probably around £50.00 on the investments. I went to withdraw using their website initially to my payment card but this was eventually "rejected" after a few days, claiming they can only withdraw to Bitcoin Wallets. I have had a very brief search about these Bitcoin Wallets in a vain effort to try and see if I can at least withdraw back to my payment card but this is were reality is dawning on me that I may have lost this entire lot.
Some of the websites offering this service only seem to do it as a "charge" service, so in the end I could be putting in further cash (With risk) without guarantee of any recompense. I am thankful it was only this miniscule amount to dip my toe in - But after being bitten this is something I would avoid but hopefully I can get some outcome on this.
Crypto experts — MoneySavingExpert Forum
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When people think about how much money they can make on crypto investing, or how they can innovate a crypto related business that will make them financially successful do they think of that amount in crypto or fiat?
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Cus said:When people think about how much money they can make on crypto investing, or how they can innovate a crypto related business that will make them financially successful do they think of that amount in crypto or fiat?1
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BTCGrey said:
I stopped all trades, losing out probably around £50.00 on the investments. I went to withdraw using their website initially to my payment card but this was eventually "rejected" after a few days, claiming they can only withdraw to Bitcoin Wallets. I have had a very brief search about these Bitcoin Wallets in a vain effort to try and see if I can at least withdraw back to my payment card but this is were reality is dawning on me that I may have lost this entire lot.You mention a payment card: if it is a credit card you should make a "section 75 claim" and if it is a debit card you should make a "chargeback". Chargebacks are less likely to succeed as refunds depend on the card issuer's own policies while section 75 claims are statutory consumer law. Either way, you tell the card issuer that you paid for cryptocurrency but it has not been delivered as it was a scam. There is a good chance they will reject the claim as "investment / gambling losses" - if so you should push back as paying for cryptocurrency and never receiving it is not the same thing as buying some cryptocurrency, receiving it and losing money on it.Otherwise your £200 is gone. Walk away and change your email address and phone number as you are on a suckers list, and could otherwise get scammed again in the future.If anyone claims they can get your £200 back it is a scam.
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