BITCOIN

HansOndabush

darren232002 said:

Malthusian said:

darren232002 said:

Malthusian said:

My critical thinking skills are enough to keep me out of money games and paying £30 for £5 worth of pizza bro.

Got any actual reasons why paying £30 for £5 worth of pizza and a £10 ticket to a zero sum money game is a good idea?

If you cant identify an obvious marketing play by a young company in a growing industry, then you're ngmi. 

So it's a good idea to pay £30 for £5 worth of pizza and a £10 ticket to a zero sum money game because it's an obvious marketing ploy. Roger 

HansOndabush said:

When Wall St. sneezes, bitcoin catches a cold.

Bitcoin down over 14% since Monday

Gold down 1.1% since Monday

Which one has been a better store of value?

Find the 'zoom out' button. You might want to use it...

Silly and cheap point scoring arguments like the above might work on cretins, but to anyone with a brain you just mark yourself out as someone who lacks the ability to reason well or has an axe to grind.

Take it you didn't sell then 
Btw, you can no longer buy that Tesla with Bitcoin either. 
Elon is the ultimate pump n dump merchant; I bet he and his buddies have been insider trading on the tweets!

Malthusian

darren232002 said:

Please try to make sense.

Your first point was that a crypto exchange must not believe in crypto because they were giving it away. The response was, its a marketing ploy that obviously offers no information on their private view on the direction of the crypto market.

It indicates that they don't think it's going to lambo moon to $100,000+ any time soon, otherwise they wouldn't sell them for $50,000 just so a bro can get some bad pizza. That is all.

Thinking up handwaving explanations why someone who believes in crypto would sell an asset they believe will lambo moon to infinity and beyond for a mere $50,000 does not constitute critical thinking skills.

lozzy1965

ZingPowZing said:

lozzy1965 said:

ZingPowZing said:

3) Bitcoin holders have lost over $100 billion overnight.

I imagine (based on no research whatsoever) that most bitcoin holders will have just lost a paper $100 billion, from their profits gained so far.  Assuming most have been in it for the long term and they have already gained many times $100 billion.  As with any investment, it is the panic buyers and panic sellers who lose out.

Trouble with that, lozzy, is that there is no reason to hoard bitcoin in the absence of the prospect of the price rising* - there is no dividend, no product, nothing to anchor the price - so I can see a general rush for the exit if the decline continues.
There again, with 10% of total value traded daily, bitcoin is subject to far more volatility than most investments. Those trading on margin are going to have to realise those "paper losses."

* I can see a logical case for bitcoin appreciating over decades and centuries, but I'm not convinced many investors could withstand the volatility. 

I agree with your logic 100%.  I really don't get why crypto is proving to be so resilient, and I am expecting a crash.  The trouble is, that it IS so far, resilient, and the rise in value has been astronomical for over a decade.  It's difficult to argue that logically this shouldn't be happening because there is no intrinsic value in it (and I take Darren's point about not understanding the fundamentals - which I don't) when it clearly is, and keeps on, happening.  So the reason to hoard is that it just does keep going up - so far.

Atlas234

lozzy1965 said:

ZingPowZing said:

lozzy1965 said:

ZingPowZing said:

3) Bitcoin holders have lost over $100 billion overnight.

I imagine (based on no research whatsoever) that most bitcoin holders will have just lost a paper $100 billion, from their profits gained so far.  Assuming most have been in it for the long term and they have already gained many times $100 billion.  As with any investment, it is the panic buyers and panic sellers who lose out.

Trouble with that, lozzy, is that there is no reason to hoard bitcoin in the absence of the prospect of the price rising* - there is no dividend, no product, nothing to anchor the price - so I can see a general rush for the exit if the decline continues.
There again, with 10% of total value traded daily, bitcoin is subject to far more volatility than most investments. Those trading on margin are going to have to realise those "paper losses."

* I can see a logical case for bitcoin appreciating over decades and centuries, but I'm not convinced many investors could withstand the volatility. 

I agree with your logic 100%.  I really don't get why crypto is proving to be so resilient, and I am expecting a crash.  The trouble is, that it IS so far, resilient, and the rise in value has ben astronomical for over a decade.  It's difficult to argue that logically this shouldn't be happening because there is no intrinsic value in it (and I take Darren's point about not understanding the fundamentals - which I don't) when it clearly is, and keeps on, happening.  So the reason to hoard is that it just does keep going up - so far.

Bitcoin itself doesn't really do anything, other than being a store of value, but other cryptocurrencies and the blockchain technologies behind them do have real world use cases. For example Cardano (ADA) have recently announced a deal with the Ethiopian government to use their technology to track student performance. Vechain utilises the technology for supply chain purposes, there are many, many other use cases for real world applications, its not all just 'made up internet money'. I think more and more adoption will come over the coming years, this year more than any before large investment funds are now acquiring crypto currencies too as part of their portfolios and just like the stock market it will continue to go up and down (just a hell of a lot more volitile with crypto)

Scottex99

HansOndabush said:

When Wall St. sneezes, bitcoin catches a cold.

Bitcoin down over 14% since Monday

Gold down 1.1% since Monday

Which one has been a better store of value?

"Zoom out you mug" was my initial thought but I'll try not to be rude 
Don't lower yourself to that nonsense when anyone with a quarter of a brain and access to google can destroy that argument.

HansOndabush

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

When Wall St. sneezes, bitcoin catches a cold.

Bitcoin down over 14% since Monday

Gold down 1.1% since Monday

Which one has been a better store of value?

"Zoom out you mug" was my initial thought but I'll try not to be rude 
Don't lower yourself to that nonsense when anyone with a quarter of a brain and access to google can destroy that argument.

Go buy yourself a Tesla; oh wait you can't any longer. Never mind you can always hire a hit man instead wit yer coins.

Thrugelmir

HansOndabush said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

When Wall St. sneezes, bitcoin catches a cold.

Bitcoin down over 14% since Monday

Gold down 1.1% since Monday

Which one has been a better store of value?

"Zoom out you mug" was my initial thought but I'll try not to be rude 
Don't lower yourself to that nonsense when anyone with a quarter of a brain and access to google can destroy that argument.

Go buy yourself a Tesla; oh wait you can't any longer. Never mind you can always hire a hit man instead wit yer coins.

Judging by Tesla car sales in China in April. The PR stunt backfired somewhat. 

Scottex99

HansOndabush said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

When Wall St. sneezes, bitcoin catches a cold.

Bitcoin down over 14% since Monday

Gold down 1.1% since Monday

Which one has been a better store of value?

"Zoom out you mug" was my initial thought but I'll try not to be rude 
Don't lower yourself to that nonsense when anyone with a quarter of a brain and access to google can destroy that argument.

Go buy yourself a Tesla; oh wait you can't any longer. Never mind you can always hire a hit man instead wit yer coins.

What is this, the playground now?

I’ll probably buy a villa with my gains tbh

underground99

Scottex99 said:

I’ll probably buy a villa with my gains tbh

Pretty good going, I see that A. Villa are currently 11th in the Premier League. Good luck with your bid.

User232002

lardellion said:

Do you know what a "store of value" is? Bitcoin is not a good one because the price is very volatile. You seem to believe it is because the price has been going up a lot.

 *sigh*
I have never said Bitcoin is a store of value because its price is going up. The volatility of Bitcoin is decreasing over time because it is a new asset class. At some point in the future when BTC is $400k+/coin then its volatility will be incredibly low. 

Right now, I would probably suggest Bitcoin is best classified as an uncorrelated hedge (because it sits outside the financial system which is mainly all influenced by the fed and its levers), with the long term potential to become a store of value (as it is better than gold in almost all metrics). But, people on here are talking about 3 day price action and ponzi schemes so I truly think they lack the capacity to understand the previous sentence. 

HansOndabush said:

Take it you didn't sell then 
Btw, you can no longer buy that Tesla with Bitcoin either. 
Elon is the ultimate pump n dump merchant; I bet he and his buddies have been insider trading on the tweets!

 I've made it very clear as to what criteria invalidates my thesis. Bitcoin going down by 15% in a couple of days is nothing new to me and nothing I particularly stress over, even though it 'cost' me tens of thousands of dollars on paper. 

YTD:
Bitcoin: +72%
Gold: -3% (Yes, minus 3%)
Since March 18th (Pre-Pandemic):
Bitcoin: 525%
Gold: +9% 
Since 2011:
Bitcoin: Some absurd number.
Gold: Basically 0% from 2011 peak (that's in nominal terms btw as well)

I also don't understand what you are (trying to be) so gleeful about? I see this a lot from no-coiners and I can only infer that your view of bitcoin is so tied up in your view of the world that you need the validation of being right. Like I said, anti-Bayesian thinking.

Malthusian said:

It indicates that they don't think it's going to lambo moon to $100,000+ any time soon, otherwise they wouldn't sell them for $50,000 just so a bro can get some bad pizza. That is all.

Thinking up handwaving explanations why someone who believes in crypto would sell an asset they believe will lambo moon to infinity and beyond for a mere $50,000 does not constitute critical thinking skills.

 Oh god. This level of analysis is woeful.

Firstly, its probably not a good idea to be running a business in an area that you think isn't going to grow in the future. I think the fact they run a crypto exchange probably tells you all you need to know about their outlook on the crypto space. Secondly, they aren't 'selling' any asset - probably because they do actually believe the price of BTC will increase. They are giving it away as part of a marketing campaign; and that is a crucial difference.

Set marketing budget (in fiat obviously). Pay for BTC in fiat. Run marketing campaign. Some BTC gets claimed, some is never given away and/or some is left in user accounts and claimed back years later under the exchanges Ts&Cs. Congratulations, you've just managed to both acquire new customers and expose company fiat to BTC under the marketing budget where you are exposed to the long-term upside but not the downside (because the spend is already written off). I would also strongly assume that idiots who are getting their first exposure to BTC via a pizza promotion are going to be the same idiots paying their 3.5% debit card fees, which means they'd only need a £300 buy from them to break even. 

Lastly, the 'lambo moon' scenario for Bitcoin isn't $100k. $100k is a pretty attainable near term target and I would personally be surprised if it doesn't hit by the end of this year. The 'lambo moon' scenario for Bitcoin is in the millions per coin.

I know you think you are being really clever by using the words 'bro' and 'blockchain' a lot, but you really aren't very sharp.