BITCOIN

wiseonesomeofthetime

In the headlines again today

Tesla will no longer accept Bitcoin over climate concerns, says Musk

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57096305

lozzy1965

ZingPowZing said:

3) Bitcoin holders have lost over $100 billion overnight.

I imagine (based on no research whatsoever) that most bitcoin holders will have just lost a paper $100 billion, from their profits gained so far.  Assuming most have been in it for the long term and they have already gained many times $100 billion.  As with any investment, it is the panic buyers and panic sellers who lose out.

thegentleway

thegentleway said:

Malthusian said:

darren232002 said:

I really think you need to work on your critical thinking skills.

My critical thinking skills are enough to keep me out of money games and paying £30 for £5 worth of pizza bro.

Got any actual reasons why paying £30 for £5 worth of pizza and a £10 ticket to a zero sum money game is a good idea?

just wondering if you think buying gold is a zero sum game as well?

Yes.

While there is some industrial use for gold, which limits the downside potential, most of the time most people are buying gold in the hope of selling it for more money later (not to make watches or circuitry from). And if most people are buying gold in the hope of selling it for more later, punters' money in == punters' money out.

If people ever deserted gold as a money game en masse, leaving the only demand from jewellers and electronics manufacturers, the price would collapse as a huge horde of speculators and central banks chased a relatively small number of jewellers. The losses that would result might as well be 100% for all the good it would do the speculators. I don't think it will ever happen - and likewise I don't believe Bitcoin will ever go to zero. Bros will always want to get rich quick and nutters will always want to buy gold when they've got too much money to stuff under the floorboards.

The idea that gold is a hedge against inflation is a myth and based on nothing more than "shiny shiny metal go up". From 1972 - 2017 (can't be bothered to update the numbers), gold beat inflation in only 35% of 10 year periods. The FTSE World stockmarket index beat inflation 83% of the time. Entering a zero sum money game may beat inflation or it may not.

Agreed, I think Buffet has a similar view on gold/crypto. 

User232002

Malthusian said:

darren232002 said:

Malthusian said:

My critical thinking skills are enough to keep me out of money games and paying £30 for £5 worth of pizza bro.

Got any actual reasons why paying £30 for £5 worth of pizza and a £10 ticket to a zero sum money game is a good idea?

If you cant identify an obvious marketing play by a young company in a growing industry, then you're ngmi. 

So it's a good idea to pay £30 for £5 worth of pizza and a £10 ticket to a zero sum money game because it's an obvious marketing ploy. Roger that bro.

Please try to make sense.

Your first point was that a crypto exchange must not believe in crypto because they were giving it away. The response was, its a marketing ploy that obviously offers no information on their private view on the direction of the crypto market. Now, you're rambling on about whether its a good idea for a customer to buy overpriced pizza as if that is in anyway relevant to this thread. I offer no opinion and don't particularly care about what people choose to consume for dinner.

I was bang on about the critical thinking skills.

HansOndabush said:

When Wall St. sneezes, bitcoin catches a cold.

Bitcoin down over 14% since Monday

Gold down 1.1% since Monday

Which one has been a better store of value?

Find the 'zoom out' button. You might want to use it...

Silly and cheap point scoring arguments like the above might work on cretins, but to anyone with a brain you just mark yourself out as someone who lacks the ability to reason well or has an axe to grind.

[Deleted User]

lozzy1965 said:

ZingPowZing said:

3) Bitcoin holders have lost over $100 billion overnight.

I imagine (based on no research whatsoever) that most bitcoin holders will have just lost a paper $100 billion, from their profits gained so far.  Assuming most have been in it for the long term and they have already gained many times $100 billion.  As with any investment, it is the panic buyers and panic sellers who lose out.

Trouble with that, lozzy, is that there is no reason to hoard bitcoin in the absence of the prospect of the price rising* - there is no dividend, no product, nothing to anchor the price - so I can see a general rush for the exit if the decline continues.
There again, with 10% of total value traded daily, bitcoin is subject to far more volatility than most investments. Those trading on margin are going to have to realise those "paper losses."

* I can see a logical case for bitcoin appreciating over decades and centuries, but I'm not convinced many investors could withstand the volatility. 

HansOndabush

darren232002 said:

Malthusian said:

darren232002 said:

Malthusian said:

My critical thinking skills are enough to keep me out of money games and paying £30 for £5 worth of pizza bro.

Got any actual reasons why paying £30 for £5 worth of pizza and a £10 ticket to a zero sum money game is a good idea?

If you cant identify an obvious marketing play by a young company in a growing industry, then you're ngmi. 

So it's a good idea to pay £30 for £5 worth of pizza and a £10 ticket to a zero sum money game because it's an obvious marketing ploy. Roger 

HansOndabush said:

When Wall St. sneezes, bitcoin catches a cold.

Bitcoin down over 14% since Monday

Gold down 1.1% since Monday

Which one has been a better store of value?

Find the 'zoom out' button. You might want to use it...

Silly and cheap point scoring arguments like the above might work on cretins, but to anyone with a brain you just mark yourself out as someone who lacks the ability to reason well or has an axe to grind.

Take it you didn't sell then 
Btw, you can no longer buy that Tesla with Bitcoin either. 
Elon is the ultimate pump n dump merchant; I bet he and his buddies have been insider trading on the tweets!

Malthusian

darren232002 said:

Please try to make sense.

Your first point was that a crypto exchange must not believe in crypto because they were giving it away. The response was, its a marketing ploy that obviously offers no information on their private view on the direction of the crypto market.

It indicates that they don't think it's going to lambo moon to $100,000+ any time soon, otherwise they wouldn't sell them for $50,000 just so a bro can get some bad pizza. That is all.

Thinking up handwaving explanations why someone who believes in crypto would sell an asset they believe will lambo moon to infinity and beyond for a mere $50,000 does not constitute critical thinking skills.

lozzy1965

ZingPowZing said:

lozzy1965 said:

ZingPowZing said:

3) Bitcoin holders have lost over $100 billion overnight.

I imagine (based on no research whatsoever) that most bitcoin holders will have just lost a paper $100 billion, from their profits gained so far.  Assuming most have been in it for the long term and they have already gained many times $100 billion.  As with any investment, it is the panic buyers and panic sellers who lose out.

Trouble with that, lozzy, is that there is no reason to hoard bitcoin in the absence of the prospect of the price rising* - there is no dividend, no product, nothing to anchor the price - so I can see a general rush for the exit if the decline continues.
There again, with 10% of total value traded daily, bitcoin is subject to far more volatility than most investments. Those trading on margin are going to have to realise those "paper losses."

* I can see a logical case for bitcoin appreciating over decades and centuries, but I'm not convinced many investors could withstand the volatility. 

I agree with your logic 100%.  I really don't get why crypto is proving to be so resilient, and I am expecting a crash.  The trouble is, that it IS so far, resilient, and the rise in value has been astronomical for over a decade.  It's difficult to argue that logically this shouldn't be happening because there is no intrinsic value in it (and I take Darren's point about not understanding the fundamentals - which I don't) when it clearly is, and keeps on, happening.  So the reason to hoard is that it just does keep going up - so far.

Atlas234

lozzy1965 said:

ZingPowZing said:

lozzy1965 said:

ZingPowZing said:

3) Bitcoin holders have lost over $100 billion overnight.

I imagine (based on no research whatsoever) that most bitcoin holders will have just lost a paper $100 billion, from their profits gained so far.  Assuming most have been in it for the long term and they have already gained many times $100 billion.  As with any investment, it is the panic buyers and panic sellers who lose out.

Trouble with that, lozzy, is that there is no reason to hoard bitcoin in the absence of the prospect of the price rising* - there is no dividend, no product, nothing to anchor the price - so I can see a general rush for the exit if the decline continues.
There again, with 10% of total value traded daily, bitcoin is subject to far more volatility than most investments. Those trading on margin are going to have to realise those "paper losses."

* I can see a logical case for bitcoin appreciating over decades and centuries, but I'm not convinced many investors could withstand the volatility. 

I agree with your logic 100%.  I really don't get why crypto is proving to be so resilient, and I am expecting a crash.  The trouble is, that it IS so far, resilient, and the rise in value has ben astronomical for over a decade.  It's difficult to argue that logically this shouldn't be happening because there is no intrinsic value in it (and I take Darren's point about not understanding the fundamentals - which I don't) when it clearly is, and keeps on, happening.  So the reason to hoard is that it just does keep going up - so far.

Bitcoin itself doesn't really do anything, other than being a store of value, but other cryptocurrencies and the blockchain technologies behind them do have real world use cases. For example Cardano (ADA) have recently announced a deal with the Ethiopian government to use their technology to track student performance. Vechain utilises the technology for supply chain purposes, there are many, many other use cases for real world applications, its not all just 'made up internet money'. I think more and more adoption will come over the coming years, this year more than any before large investment funds are now acquiring crypto currencies too as part of their portfolios and just like the stock market it will continue to go up and down (just a hell of a lot more volitile with crypto)

Scottex99

HansOndabush said:

When Wall St. sneezes, bitcoin catches a cold.

Bitcoin down over 14% since Monday

Gold down 1.1% since Monday

Which one has been a better store of value?

"Zoom out you mug" was my initial thought but I'll try not to be rude 
Don't lower yourself to that nonsense when anyone with a quarter of a brain and access to google can destroy that argument.