BITCOIN

Scottex99

Value =/= Price. Elon's tweet affected the price of Bitcoin this week, but it did not measurably affect the value of it. Market movements are inherently psychological and, particularly in the crypto world, narrative and sentiment driven. Comparably, there was no real reason for Netflix & Facebook to lose ~20% in the pandemic sell off given that their business models rely on people being online; their underlying value increased in March 2020 even if their price went down. Gold lost 10% in the pandemic crash before rebounding, for no good reason.

The facts show that Gold has been a pretty awful store of value for the last decade, so now we've shifted to talking about century long timescales... What good is a store of value that only keeps value on 100 year timescales when the average human lifespan is ~80 years, and the average useful lifespan (after acquiring wealth) is half that if you're lucky? How can you trust gold 'to be a reliable hedge against inflation and debasement of fiat currency over [...] a century" when the average lifespan of fiat currencies is, historically, considerably less than 100 years?

This is so on point.

Darren brings Alpha here in every post, would be advisable to listen what he says if you can get your smooth brains around the fact that it's not a ponzi 

thegentleway

Scottex99 said:

benbay001 said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Elon no longer accepting bitcoin for Tesla's could be the death knell for bitcoin. Now no other company is going to want to be seen as not environmentally friendly either; it's a major reversal in the 'adoption of bitcoin' story.

Hahaha, how many times does need to be explained to you? BTC isn’t for payments. Generally companies say they accept it as a gimmick and 99% of people would never dream of spending their precious Bitcoin anyway. Yeah it would be cool to buy a Cybertruck for free (or with BTC that I bought at $4k) but it’ll cost me many times more in the long run.

So no, nobody cares about the Tesla news.

Kudos on the crusade though, lol

Exactly, its for getting rich quick!
Get with the times Hans. Grr.

(But more seriously, whats it for then?)

 Satoshi solved the double spend problem, and created it so you could move money/wealth in a decentralised way without needing authority from any 3rd party. That part works perfectly.

People then assume that it'll be used for payments which is can be but its kind of odd because it's so volatile. Yes there are widgets and things that track the price but if you sell a rolex for 1 BTC thats $48.8k right now but what about tomorrow, next year or 5 mins from now? I just got a new client who is a BTC fund. They are buying BTC from me with EUR. There's a gap from when the wire us the EUR and when it lands where the price could (in theory) do anything and I'm pitching them to perhaps buy USDT/USDC from us instead to hedge that risk. But they are cool with it. Plus there can be slow block confirmations etc if you were actually buying coffee with it via a QR code, although personally I dont see the point.

So to answer the question, store of value, speculative investment, hedge against inflation, take back control of your personal wealth, etc etc

Who is controlling my personal wealth?

Scottex99

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

benbay001 said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Elon no longer accepting bitcoin for Tesla's could be the death knell for bitcoin. Now no other company is going to want to be seen as not environmentally friendly either; it's a major reversal in the 'adoption of bitcoin' story.

Hahaha, how many times does need to be explained to you? BTC isn’t for payments. Generally companies say they accept it as a gimmick and 99% of people would never dream of spending their precious Bitcoin anyway. Yeah it would be cool to buy a Cybertruck for free (or with BTC that I bought at $4k) but it’ll cost me many times more in the long run.

So no, nobody cares about the Tesla news.

Kudos on the crusade though, lol

Exactly, its for getting rich quick!
Get with the times Hans. Grr.

(But more seriously, whats it for then?)

 Satoshi solved the double spend problem, and created it so you could move money/wealth in a decentralised way without needing authority from any 3rd party. That part works perfectly.

People then assume that it'll be used for payments which is can be but its kind of odd because it's so volatile. Yes there are widgets and things that track the price but if you sell a rolex for 1 BTC thats $48.8k right now but what about tomorrow, next year or 5 mins from now? I just got a new client who is a BTC fund. They are buying BTC from me with EUR. There's a gap from when the wire us the EUR and when it lands where the price could (in theory) do anything and I'm pitching them to perhaps buy USDT/USDC from us instead to hedge that risk. But they are cool with it. Plus there can be slow block confirmations etc if you were actually buying coffee with it via a QR code, although personally I dont see the point.

So to answer the question, store of value, speculative investment, hedge against inflation, take back control of your personal wealth, etc etc

Who is controlling my personal wealth?

The government, your bank, Visa/Mastercard.

You wanna send me 10 quid? You have to ask permission.

I'm not that arsed about claiming crypto is the end of the SWIFT network or going to bring down the banks any time soon. But change is coming
 

HansOndabush

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

benbay001 said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Elon no longer accepting bitcoin for Tesla's could be the death knell for bitcoin. Now no other company is going to want to be seen as not environmentally friendly either; it's a major reversal in the 'adoption of bitcoin' story.

Hahaha, how many times does need to be explained to you? BTC isn’t for payments. Generally companies say they accept it as a gimmick and 99% of people would never dream of spending their precious Bitcoin anyway. Yeah it would be cool to buy a Cybertruck for free (or with BTC that I bought at $4k) but it’ll cost me many times more in the long run.

So no, nobody cares about the Tesla news.

Kudos on the crusade though, lol

Exactly, its for getting rich quick!
Get with the times Hans. Grr.

(But more seriously, whats it for then?)

 Satoshi solved the double spend problem, and created it so you could move money/wealth in a decentralised way without needing authority from any 3rd party. That part works perfectly.

People then assume that it'll be used for payments which is can be but its kind of odd because it's so volatile. Yes there are widgets and things that track the price but if you sell a rolex for 1 BTC thats $48.8k right now but what about tomorrow, next year or 5 mins from now? I just got a new client who is a BTC fund. They are buying BTC from me with EUR. There's a gap from when the wire us the EUR and when it lands where the price could (in theory) do anything and I'm pitching them to perhaps buy USDT/USDC from us instead to hedge that risk. But they are cool with it. Plus there can be slow block confirmations etc if you were actually buying coffee with it via a QR code, although personally I dont see the point.

So to answer the question, store of value, speculative investment, hedge against inflation, take back control of your personal wealth, etc etc

Who is controlling my personal wealth?

The government, your bank, Visa/Mastercard.

You wanna send me 10 quid? You have to ask permission.

Sometimes the rules are there to save people from themselves; having checks and balances in a payments system can provide much needed protection:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56402378

thegentleway

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

benbay001 said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Elon no longer accepting bitcoin for Tesla's could be the death knell for bitcoin. Now no other company is going to want to be seen as not environmentally friendly either; it's a major reversal in the 'adoption of bitcoin' story.

Hahaha, how many times does need to be explained to you? BTC isn’t for payments. Generally companies say they accept it as a gimmick and 99% of people would never dream of spending their precious Bitcoin anyway. Yeah it would be cool to buy a Cybertruck for free (or with BTC that I bought at $4k) but it’ll cost me many times more in the long run.

So no, nobody cares about the Tesla news.

Kudos on the crusade though, lol

Exactly, its for getting rich quick!
Get with the times Hans. Grr.

(But more seriously, whats it for then?)

 Satoshi solved the double spend problem, and created it so you could move money/wealth in a decentralised way without needing authority from any 3rd party. That part works perfectly.

People then assume that it'll be used for payments which is can be but its kind of odd because it's so volatile. Yes there are widgets and things that track the price but if you sell a rolex for 1 BTC thats $48.8k right now but what about tomorrow, next year or 5 mins from now? I just got a new client who is a BTC fund. They are buying BTC from me with EUR. There's a gap from when the wire us the EUR and when it lands where the price could (in theory) do anything and I'm pitching them to perhaps buy USDT/USDC from us instead to hedge that risk. But they are cool with it. Plus there can be slow block confirmations etc if you were actually buying coffee with it via a QR code, although personally I dont see the point.

So to answer the question, store of value, speculative investment, hedge against inflation, take back control of your personal wealth, etc etc

Who is controlling my personal wealth?

The government, your bank, Visa/Mastercard.

You wanna send me 10 quid? You have to ask permission.

I'm not that arsed about claiming crypto is the end of the SWIFT network or going to bring down the banks any time soon. But change is coming

At least it’s not shape changing lizards...

Ask permission? From who exactly? Pretty sure I can send you a tenner in lots of ways (PayPal, bank transfer, cheque, etc...)

Scottex99

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

benbay001 said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Elon no longer accepting bitcoin for Tesla's could be the death knell for bitcoin. Now no other company is going to want to be seen as not environmentally friendly either; it's a major reversal in the 'adoption of bitcoin' story.

Hahaha, how many times does need to be explained to you? BTC isn’t for payments. Generally companies say they accept it as a gimmick and 99% of people would never dream of spending their precious Bitcoin anyway. Yeah it would be cool to buy a Cybertruck for free (or with BTC that I bought at $4k) but it’ll cost me many times more in the long run.

So no, nobody cares about the Tesla news.

Kudos on the crusade though, lol

Exactly, its for getting rich quick!
Get with the times Hans. Grr.

(But more seriously, whats it for then?)

 Satoshi solved the double spend problem, and created it so you could move money/wealth in a decentralised way without needing authority from any 3rd party. That part works perfectly.

People then assume that it'll be used for payments which is can be but its kind of odd because it's so volatile. Yes there are widgets and things that track the price but if you sell a rolex for 1 BTC thats $48.8k right now but what about tomorrow, next year or 5 mins from now? I just got a new client who is a BTC fund. They are buying BTC from me with EUR. There's a gap from when the wire us the EUR and when it lands where the price could (in theory) do anything and I'm pitching them to perhaps buy USDT/USDC from us instead to hedge that risk. But they are cool with it. Plus there can be slow block confirmations etc if you were actually buying coffee with it via a QR code, although personally I dont see the point.

So to answer the question, store of value, speculative investment, hedge against inflation, take back control of your personal wealth, etc etc

Who is controlling my personal wealth?

The government, your bank, Visa/Mastercard.

You wanna send me 10 quid? You have to ask permission.

I'm not that arsed about claiming crypto is the end of the SWIFT network or going to bring down the banks any time soon. But change is coming

At least it’s not shape changing lizards...

Ask permission? From who exactly? Pretty sure I can send you a tenner in lots of ways (PayPal, bank transfer, cheque, etc...)

Yeah and I’m every single option there is a counterparty that has to verify that and let it happen.

If any of them decide that they don’t want to do it or your bank account is suddenly blocked etc then can you send the money? Nope.

Not as relevant in the 1st world obviously but ask Argentinians how they feel about banks, or Venezuelans or Zimbabweans.

Scottex99

HansOndabush said:

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

benbay001 said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Elon no longer accepting bitcoin for Tesla's could be the death knell for bitcoin. Now no other company is going to want to be seen as not environmentally friendly either; it's a major reversal in the 'adoption of bitcoin' story.

Hahaha, how many times does need to be explained to you? BTC isn’t for payments. Generally companies say they accept it as a gimmick and 99% of people would never dream of spending their precious Bitcoin anyway. Yeah it would be cool to buy a Cybertruck for free (or with BTC that I bought at $4k) but it’ll cost me many times more in the long run.

So no, nobody cares about the Tesla news.

Kudos on the crusade though, lol

Exactly, its for getting rich quick!
Get with the times Hans. Grr.

(But more seriously, whats it for then?)

 Satoshi solved the double spend problem, and created it so you could move money/wealth in a decentralised way without needing authority from any 3rd party. That part works perfectly.

People then assume that it'll be used for payments which is can be but its kind of odd because it's so volatile. Yes there are widgets and things that track the price but if you sell a rolex for 1 BTC thats $48.8k right now but what about tomorrow, next year or 5 mins from now? I just got a new client who is a BTC fund. They are buying BTC from me with EUR. There's a gap from when the wire us the EUR and when it lands where the price could (in theory) do anything and I'm pitching them to perhaps buy USDT/USDC from us instead to hedge that risk. But they are cool with it. Plus there can be slow block confirmations etc if you were actually buying coffee with it via a QR code, although personally I dont see the point.

So to answer the question, store of value, speculative investment, hedge against inflation, take back control of your personal wealth, etc etc

Who is controlling my personal wealth?

The government, your bank, Visa/Mastercard.

You wanna send me 10 quid? You have to ask permission.

Sometimes the rules are there to save people from themselves; having checks and balances in a payments system can provide much needed protection:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56402378

No protection against having zero common sense.

Would this even be news if he was swindled by a Nigerian Prince email to his hotmail account?

thegentleway

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

benbay001 said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Elon no longer accepting bitcoin for Tesla's could be the death knell for bitcoin. Now no other company is going to want to be seen as not environmentally friendly either; it's a major reversal in the 'adoption of bitcoin' story.

Hahaha, how many times does need to be explained to you? BTC isn’t for payments. Generally companies say they accept it as a gimmick and 99% of people would never dream of spending their precious Bitcoin anyway. Yeah it would be cool to buy a Cybertruck for free (or with BTC that I bought at $4k) but it’ll cost me many times more in the long run.

So no, nobody cares about the Tesla news.

Kudos on the crusade though, lol

Exactly, its for getting rich quick!
Get with the times Hans. Grr.

(But more seriously, whats it for then?)

 Satoshi solved the double spend problem, and created it so you could move money/wealth in a decentralised way without needing authority from any 3rd party. That part works perfectly.

People then assume that it'll be used for payments which is can be but its kind of odd because it's so volatile. Yes there are widgets and things that track the price but if you sell a rolex for 1 BTC thats $48.8k right now but what about tomorrow, next year or 5 mins from now? I just got a new client who is a BTC fund. They are buying BTC from me with EUR. There's a gap from when the wire us the EUR and when it lands where the price could (in theory) do anything and I'm pitching them to perhaps buy USDT/USDC from us instead to hedge that risk. But they are cool with it. Plus there can be slow block confirmations etc if you were actually buying coffee with it via a QR code, although personally I dont see the point.

So to answer the question, store of value, speculative investment, hedge against inflation, take back control of your personal wealth, etc etc

Who is controlling my personal wealth?

The government, your bank, Visa/Mastercard.

You wanna send me 10 quid? You have to ask permission.

I'm not that arsed about claiming crypto is the end of the SWIFT network or going to bring down the banks any time soon. But change is coming

At least it’s not shape changing lizards...

Ask permission? From who exactly? Pretty sure I can send you a tenner in lots of ways (PayPal, bank transfer, cheque, etc...)

Yeah and I’m every single option there is a counterparty that has to verify that and let it happen.

If any of them decide that they don’t want to do it or your bank account is suddenly blocked etc then can you send the money? Nope.

Not as relevant in the 1st world obviously but ask Argentinians how they feel about banks, or Venezuelans or Zimbabweans.

Counterparty? The counterparty in our fictional example of me (the sender) is you (the receiver)...

Who is going to decide they don’t want to complete the transaction?

I can still send you money via PayPal if my bank account is blocked, which only happens if you lose your card, or there’s suspicious activity, etc... it’s a good thing. Keeps my money safe.

What’s the link between those currencies devaluing and retail banks where people park their cash?

HansOndabush

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

benbay001 said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Elon no longer accepting bitcoin for Tesla's could be the death knell for bitcoin. Now no other company is going to want to be seen as not environmentally friendly either; it's a major reversal in the 'adoption of bitcoin' story.

Hahaha, how many times does need to be explained to you? BTC isn’t for payments. Generally companies say they accept it as a gimmick and 99% of people would never dream of spending their precious Bitcoin anyway. Yeah it would be cool to buy a Cybertruck for free (or with BTC that I bought at $4k) but it’ll cost me many times more in the long run.

So no, nobody cares about the Tesla news.

Kudos on the crusade though, lol

Exactly, its for getting rich quick!
Get with the times Hans. Grr.

(But more seriously, whats it for then?)

 Satoshi solved the double spend problem, and created it so you could move money/wealth in a decentralised way without needing authority from any 3rd party. That part works perfectly.

People then assume that it'll be used for payments which is can be but its kind of odd because it's so volatile. Yes there are widgets and things that track the price but if you sell a rolex for 1 BTC thats $48.8k right now but what about tomorrow, next year or 5 mins from now? I just got a new client who is a BTC fund. They are buying BTC from me with EUR. There's a gap from when the wire us the EUR and when it lands where the price could (in theory) do anything and I'm pitching them to perhaps buy USDT/USDC from us instead to hedge that risk. But they are cool with it. Plus there can be slow block confirmations etc if you were actually buying coffee with it via a QR code, although personally I dont see the point.

So to answer the question, store of value, speculative investment, hedge against inflation, take back control of your personal wealth, etc etc

Who is controlling my personal wealth?

The government, your bank, Visa/Mastercard.

You wanna send me 10 quid? You have to ask permission.

Sometimes the rules are there to save people from themselves; having checks and balances in a payments system can provide much needed protection:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56402378

No protection against having zero common sense.

Would this even be news if he was swindled by a Nigerian Prince email to his hotmail account?

In that case and if crypto wasn't involved, a gullible person might lose money but certainly nothing like £400,000 just fiddling around on their phone on the settee. Most regular bank accounts limit transactions to £10K or £20K and will block payment altogether if it looks supicious which in many cases is no bad thing.

HansOndabush

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

benbay001 said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Elon no longer accepting bitcoin for Tesla's could be the death knell for bitcoin. Now no other company is going to want to be seen as not environmentally friendly either; it's a major reversal in the 'adoption of bitcoin' story.

Hahaha, how many times does need to be explained to you? BTC isn’t for payments. Generally companies say they accept it as a gimmick and 99% of people would never dream of spending their precious Bitcoin anyway. Yeah it would be cool to buy a Cybertruck for free (or with BTC that I bought at $4k) but it’ll cost me many times more in the long run.

So no, nobody cares about the Tesla news.

Kudos on the crusade though, lol

Exactly, its for getting rich quick!
Get with the times Hans. Grr.

(But more seriously, whats it for then?)

 Satoshi solved the double spend problem, and created it so you could move money/wealth in a decentralised way without needing authority from any 3rd party. That part works perfectly.

People then assume that it'll be used for payments which is can be but its kind of odd because it's so volatile. Yes there are widgets and things that track the price but if you sell a rolex for 1 BTC thats $48.8k right now but what about tomorrow, next year or 5 mins from now? I just got a new client who is a BTC fund. They are buying BTC from me with EUR. There's a gap from when the wire us the EUR and when it lands where the price could (in theory) do anything and I'm pitching them to perhaps buy USDT/USDC from us instead to hedge that risk. But they are cool with it. Plus there can be slow block confirmations etc if you were actually buying coffee with it via a QR code, although personally I dont see the point.

So to answer the question, store of value, speculative investment, hedge against inflation, take back control of your personal wealth, etc etc

Who is controlling my personal wealth?

The government, your bank, Visa/Mastercard.

You wanna send me 10 quid? You have to ask permission.

I'm not that arsed about claiming crypto is the end of the SWIFT network or going to bring down the banks any time soon. But change is coming

At least it’s not shape changing lizards...

Ask permission? From who exactly? Pretty sure I can send you a tenner in lots of ways (PayPal, bank transfer, cheque, etc...)

Yeah and I’m every single option there is a counterparty that has to verify that and let it happen.

If any of them decide that they don’t want to do it or your bank account is suddenly blocked etc then can you send the money? Nope.

Not as relevant in the 1st world obviously but ask Argentinians how they feel about banks, or Venezuelans or Zimbabweans.

Counterparty? The counterparty in our fictional example of me (the sender) is you (the receiver)...

Who is going to decide they don’t want to complete the transaction?

I can still send you money via PayPal if my bank account is blocked, which only happens if you lose your card, or there’s suspicious activity, etc... it’s a good thing. Keeps my money safe.

What’s the link between those currencies devaluing and retail banks where people park their cash?

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

benbay001 said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Elon no longer accepting bitcoin for Tesla's could be the death knell for bitcoin. Now no other company is going to want to be seen as not environmentally friendly either; it's a major reversal in the 'adoption of bitcoin' story.

Hahaha, how many times does need to be explained to you? BTC isn’t for payments. Generally companies say they accept it as a gimmick and 99% of people would never dream of spending their precious Bitcoin anyway. Yeah it would be cool to buy a Cybertruck for free (or with BTC that I bought at $4k) but it’ll cost me many times more in the long run.

So no, nobody cares about the Tesla news.

Kudos on the crusade though, lol

Exactly, its for getting rich quick!
Get with the times Hans. Grr.

(But more seriously, whats it for then?)

 Satoshi solved the double spend problem, and created it so you could move money/wealth in a decentralised way without needing authority from any 3rd party. That part works perfectly.

People then assume that it'll be used for payments which is can be but its kind of odd because it's so volatile. Yes there are widgets and things that track the price but if you sell a rolex for 1 BTC thats $48.8k right now but what about tomorrow, next year or 5 mins from now? I just got a new client who is a BTC fund. They are buying BTC from me with EUR. There's a gap from when the wire us the EUR and when it lands where the price could (in theory) do anything and I'm pitching them to perhaps buy USDT/USDC from us instead to hedge that risk. But they are cool with it. Plus there can be slow block confirmations etc if you were actually buying coffee with it via a QR code, although personally I dont see the point.

So to answer the question, store of value, speculative investment, hedge against inflation, take back control of your personal wealth, etc etc

Who is controlling my personal wealth?

The government, your bank, Visa/Mastercard.

You wanna send me 10 quid? You have to ask permission.

I'm not that arsed about claiming crypto is the end of the SWIFT network or going to bring down the banks any time soon. But change is coming

At least it’s not shape changing lizards...

Ask permission? From who exactly? Pretty sure I can send you a tenner in lots of ways (PayPal, bank transfer, cheque, etc...)

Yeah and I’m every single option there is a counterparty that has to verify that and let it happen.

If any of them decide that they don’t want to do it or your bank account is suddenly blocked etc then can you send the money? Nope.

Not as relevant in the 1st world obviously but ask Argentinians how they feel about banks, or Venezuelans or Zimbabweans.

What’s the link between those currencies devaluing and retail banks where people park their cash?

I think he means in extreme financial conditions; the banks might do one of:

a) Only let you withdraw in the worthless, local currency

b) Limit what you can withdraw

c) Close their doors and not let you withdraw anything.

All of the above has happened and still happens. With crypto you are in control and can move it to a safe country with hard currency to cash out. That is the theory anyway.