BITCOIN

aaj123

silvercue said:

aaj123 said:

Who's like me this year where their savings and investment choices are the extreme ends of the spectrum? I am finding the latest interest rates on savings attractive after many years and yet crypto (and here I really mean the non-shitcoins BTC and ETH) seems ever more attractive to me in terms of the upside relative to the savings rates.

I ask because many seem to think crypto should become less attractive in a high risk free rate environment but I look at it from the point of view that BTC and ETH are the ones that infact are even more attractive given that among risk assets, they have the most compelling upside well beyond even the now higher savings rates. I'd be loath to go into traditional equities simply because the upside on those doesn't make it worthwhile considering what we could get risk free on savings now.

In all of the above, it is needless to say that I do not subscribe to the ponzi / 'can go to zero' view about BTC / ETH and I'd only say each should do their research.

The majority of my investments are crypto.  I have ISA, shares, savings etc as well, but the majority is crypto.  I had an incredible year in 2021 and a bad year in 2022 (I don't want to talk about it ) .  I hope we start to get back to the good times this year.  

I'll take this year as a bonus if it gets good. More hopeful for next year with the BTC halving. Meanwhile plenty of good things happening with ETH but I somehow doubt the market will notice all that until BTC gets its act together.

aaj123

Since this is a savings forum and we talk interest rates, I hope folks are aware that with ETH, you can actually get a staking yield of roughly 4.5% (importantly denominated in ETH). There are a few different ways of doing this each with pros and cons but that's a whole separate discussion.

The appeal then being that you have an asset with a high potential upside alongwith a regular yield too. Not something typically seen in the traditional investment universe.

As always applicable, do your own research. There is a huge amount one can learn about ETH and which will influence your comfort level.

Johnjdc

aaj123 said:

Since this is a savings forum and we talk interest rates, I hope folks are aware that with ETH, you can actually get a staking yield of roughly 4.5% (importantly denominated in ETH). There are a few different ways of doing this each with pros and cons but that's a whole separate discussion.

The appeal then being that you have an asset with a high potential upside alongwith a regular yield too. Not something typically seen in the traditional investment universe.

As always applicable, do your own research. There is a huge amount one can learn about ETH and which will influence your comfort level.

Who is the borrower and how do you establish their creditworthiness?

aaj123

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Since this is a savings forum and we talk interest rates, I hope folks are aware that with ETH, you can actually get a staking yield of roughly 4.5% (importantly denominated in ETH). There are a few different ways of doing this each with pros and cons but that's a whole separate discussion.

The appeal then being that you have an asset with a high potential upside alongwith a regular yield too. Not something typically seen in the traditional investment universe.

As always applicable, do your own research. There is a huge amount one can learn about ETH and which will influence your comfort level.

Who is the borrower and how do you establish their creditworthiness?

There is no borrower. Its the protocol itself paying you through new issuance for the service of you staking your eth. In that sense, it is zero risk. Well, as long as you trust the open source ETH protocol itself. Depending on the way you stake, there are some other risks to consider but really that is too complex a topic to cover on an MSE savings forum.

https://ethereum.org/en/staking/

And if you were gonna point out that new issuance implies dilution of the supply, then you'd be interested in knowing that infact ETH is net deflationary in supply due to transaction fees getting burnt.

https://ultrasound.money/

Yes, it is a rabbit hole that needs discovered.

Johnjdc

aaj123 said:

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Since this is a savings forum and we talk interest rates, I hope folks are aware that with ETH, you can actually get a staking yield of roughly 4.5% (importantly denominated in ETH). There are a few different ways of doing this each with pros and cons but that's a whole separate discussion.

The appeal then being that you have an asset with a high potential upside alongwith a regular yield too. Not something typically seen in the traditional investment universe.

As always applicable, do your own research. There is a huge amount one can learn about ETH and which will influence your comfort level.

Who is the borrower and how do you establish their creditworthiness?

There is no borrower. Its the protocol itself paying you through new issuance for the service of you staking your eth. In that sense, it is zero risk. Well, as long as you trust the open source ETH protocol itself. Depending on the way you stake, there are some other risks to consider but really that is too complex a topic to cover on an MSE savings forum.

https://ethereum.org/en/staking/

And if you were gonna point out that new issuance implies dilution of the supply, then you'd be interested in knowing that infact ETH is net deflationary in supply due to transaction fees getting burnt.

https://ultrasound.money/

Yes, it is a rabbit hole that needs discovered.

So they could offer any rate of interest they want since they are paying you in their own monopoly money. Charles Ponzi did the same thing. More recently, OlympusDAO had a similar "nobody sell and we'll all get rich" message.

Ethereum supply appears to increase by about 10% year on year although this has levelled off and only 2% this year. Still expanding not contracting, though.

aaj123

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Since this is a savings forum and we talk interest rates, I hope folks are aware that with ETH, you can actually get a staking yield of roughly 4.5% (importantly denominated in ETH). There are a few different ways of doing this each with pros and cons but that's a whole separate discussion.

The appeal then being that you have an asset with a high potential upside alongwith a regular yield too. Not something typically seen in the traditional investment universe.

As always applicable, do your own research. There is a huge amount one can learn about ETH and which will influence your comfort level.

Who is the borrower and how do you establish their creditworthiness?

There is no borrower. Its the protocol itself paying you through new issuance for the service of you staking your eth. In that sense, it is zero risk. Well, as long as you trust the open source ETH protocol itself. Depending on the way you stake, there are some other risks to consider but really that is too complex a topic to cover on an MSE savings forum.

https://ethereum.org/en/staking/

And if you were gonna point out that new issuance implies dilution of the supply, then you'd be interested in knowing that infact ETH is net deflationary in supply due to transaction fees getting burnt.

https://ultrasound.money/

Yes, it is a rabbit hole that needs discovered.

So they could offer any rate of interest they want since they are paying you in their own monopoly money. Charles Ponzi did the same thing. More recently, OlympusDAO had a similar "nobody sell and we'll all get rich" message.

Ethereum supply appears to increase by about 10% year on year although this has levelled off and only 2% this year. Still expanding not contracting, though.

Clearly you have no idea about this matter and jump to off the cuff ideas. If I started explaining to you about the Merge and what drastically changed in Sep last year for eth, that would be totally off topic for this forum. 

Either do research or just cope by convincing yourself of the Ponzi theory. That has worked just fine for all us crypto folk all these years. 

Johnjdc

aaj123 said:

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Since this is a savings forum and we talk interest rates, I hope folks are aware that with ETH, you can actually get a staking yield of roughly 4.5% (importantly denominated in ETH). There are a few different ways of doing this each with pros and cons but that's a whole separate discussion.

The appeal then being that you have an asset with a high potential upside alongwith a regular yield too. Not something typically seen in the traditional investment universe.

As always applicable, do your own research. There is a huge amount one can learn about ETH and which will influence your comfort level.

Who is the borrower and how do you establish their creditworthiness?

There is no borrower. Its the protocol itself paying you through new issuance for the service of you staking your eth. In that sense, it is zero risk. Well, as long as you trust the open source ETH protocol itself. Depending on the way you stake, there are some other risks to consider but really that is too complex a topic to cover on an MSE savings forum.

https://ethereum.org/en/staking/

And if you were gonna point out that new issuance implies dilution of the supply, then you'd be interested in knowing that infact ETH is net deflationary in supply due to transaction fees getting burnt.

https://ultrasound.money/

Yes, it is a rabbit hole that needs discovered.

So they could offer any rate of interest they want since they are paying you in their own monopoly money. Charles Ponzi did the same thing. More recently, OlympusDAO had a similar "nobody sell and we'll all get rich" message.

Ethereum supply appears to increase by about 10% year on year although this has levelled off and only 2% this year. Still expanding not contracting, though.

Clearly you have no idea about this matter and jump to off the cuff ideas. If I started explaining to you about the Merge and what drastically changed in Sep last year for eth, that would be totally off topic for this forum. 

Either do research or just cope by convincing yourself of the Ponzi theory. That has worked just fine for all us crypto folk all these years. 

How well did it work for the people who stored their ETH in an FTX account? Or Quadriga? Or Bitfinex?

How is it going for people who bought ETH for £3,500 in November 2021 and now see it worth £1,300? It'll take a lot of 4.5% a year to make up for that, won't it?

Ponzis do work fine until they don't, that's sort of the point.

aaj123

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Since this is a savings forum and we talk interest rates, I hope folks are aware that with ETH, you can actually get a staking yield of roughly 4.5% (importantly denominated in ETH). There are a few different ways of doing this each with pros and cons but that's a whole separate discussion.

The appeal then being that you have an asset with a high potential upside alongwith a regular yield too. Not something typically seen in the traditional investment universe.

As always applicable, do your own research. There is a huge amount one can learn about ETH and which will influence your comfort level.

Who is the borrower and how do you establish their creditworthiness?

There is no borrower. Its the protocol itself paying you through new issuance for the service of you staking your eth. In that sense, it is zero risk. Well, as long as you trust the open source ETH protocol itself. Depending on the way you stake, there are some other risks to consider but really that is too complex a topic to cover on an MSE savings forum.

https://ethereum.org/en/staking/

And if you were gonna point out that new issuance implies dilution of the supply, then you'd be interested in knowing that infact ETH is net deflationary in supply due to transaction fees getting burnt.

https://ultrasound.money/

Yes, it is a rabbit hole that needs discovered.

So they could offer any rate of interest they want since they are paying you in their own monopoly money. Charles Ponzi did the same thing. More recently, OlympusDAO had a similar "nobody sell and we'll all get rich" message.

Ethereum supply appears to increase by about 10% year on year although this has levelled off and only 2% this year. Still expanding not contracting, though.

Clearly you have no idea about this matter and jump to off the cuff ideas. If I started explaining to you about the Merge and what drastically changed in Sep last year for eth, that would be totally off topic for this forum. 

Either do research or just cope by convincing yourself of the Ponzi theory. That has worked just fine for all us crypto folk all these years. 

How well did it work for the people who stored their ETH in an FTX account? Or Quadriga? Or Bitfinex?

How is it going for people who bought ETH for £3,500 in November 2021 and now see it worth £1,300? It'll take a lot of 4.5% a year to make up for that, won't it?

Ponzis do work fine until they don't, that's sort of the point.

OK cool. Stay poor. But doesn't matter, it was a ponzi so wouldn't be your fault and the good lord will give you goodies for your esteemed rationality. 

Johnjdc

aaj123 said:

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Since this is a savings forum and we talk interest rates, I hope folks are aware that with ETH, you can actually get a staking yield of roughly 4.5% (importantly denominated in ETH). There are a few different ways of doing this each with pros and cons but that's a whole separate discussion.

The appeal then being that you have an asset with a high potential upside alongwith a regular yield too. Not something typically seen in the traditional investment universe.

As always applicable, do your own research. There is a huge amount one can learn about ETH and which will influence your comfort level.

Who is the borrower and how do you establish their creditworthiness?

There is no borrower. Its the protocol itself paying you through new issuance for the service of you staking your eth. In that sense, it is zero risk. Well, as long as you trust the open source ETH protocol itself. Depending on the way you stake, there are some other risks to consider but really that is too complex a topic to cover on an MSE savings forum.

https://ethereum.org/en/staking/

And if you were gonna point out that new issuance implies dilution of the supply, then you'd be interested in knowing that infact ETH is net deflationary in supply due to transaction fees getting burnt.

https://ultrasound.money/

Yes, it is a rabbit hole that needs discovered.

So they could offer any rate of interest they want since they are paying you in their own monopoly money. Charles Ponzi did the same thing. More recently, OlympusDAO had a similar "nobody sell and we'll all get rich" message.

Ethereum supply appears to increase by about 10% year on year although this has levelled off and only 2% this year. Still expanding not contracting, though.

Clearly you have no idea about this matter and jump to off the cuff ideas. If I started explaining to you about the Merge and what drastically changed in Sep last year for eth, that would be totally off topic for this forum. 

Either do research or just cope by convincing yourself of the Ponzi theory. That has worked just fine for all us crypto folk all these years. 

How well did it work for the people who stored their ETH in an FTX account? Or Quadriga? Or Bitfinex?

How is it going for people who bought ETH for £3,500 in November 2021 and now see it worth £1,300? It'll take a lot of 4.5% a year to make up for that, won't it?

Ponzis do work fine until they don't, that's sort of the point.

OK cool. Stay poor. But doesn't matter, it was a ponzi so wouldn't be your fault and the good lord will give you goodies for your esteemed rationality. 

Oh my life. I haven't seen a crypto bro use the "stay poor" meme in the wild since the whole thing started collapsing. Crypto bros are getting poor. I'd get out of the monopoly money scam while there is still time. The asset has no terminal value, no use value, and no yield. Its objective value is £0 and the only way it can stay above that is by each sucker finding a bigger sucker to unload to - and you're running out of suckers.

For what it's worth in the time since ETH started falling up to today when it's down around 66%, I'm up 19%.

aaj123

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Johnjdc said:

aaj123 said:

Since this is a savings forum and we talk interest rates, I hope folks are aware that with ETH, you can actually get a staking yield of roughly 4.5% (importantly denominated in ETH). There are a few different ways of doing this each with pros and cons but that's a whole separate discussion.

The appeal then being that you have an asset with a high potential upside alongwith a regular yield too. Not something typically seen in the traditional investment universe.

As always applicable, do your own research. There is a huge amount one can learn about ETH and which will influence your comfort level.

Who is the borrower and how do you establish their creditworthiness?

There is no borrower. Its the protocol itself paying you through new issuance for the service of you staking your eth. In that sense, it is zero risk. Well, as long as you trust the open source ETH protocol itself. Depending on the way you stake, there are some other risks to consider but really that is too complex a topic to cover on an MSE savings forum.

https://ethereum.org/en/staking/

And if you were gonna point out that new issuance implies dilution of the supply, then you'd be interested in knowing that infact ETH is net deflationary in supply due to transaction fees getting burnt.

https://ultrasound.money/

Yes, it is a rabbit hole that needs discovered.

So they could offer any rate of interest they want since they are paying you in their own monopoly money. Charles Ponzi did the same thing. More recently, OlympusDAO had a similar "nobody sell and we'll all get rich" message.

Ethereum supply appears to increase by about 10% year on year although this has levelled off and only 2% this year. Still expanding not contracting, though.

Clearly you have no idea about this matter and jump to off the cuff ideas. If I started explaining to you about the Merge and what drastically changed in Sep last year for eth, that would be totally off topic for this forum. 

Either do research or just cope by convincing yourself of the Ponzi theory. That has worked just fine for all us crypto folk all these years. 

How well did it work for the people who stored their ETH in an FTX account? Or Quadriga? Or Bitfinex?

How is it going for people who bought ETH for £3,500 in November 2021 and now see it worth £1,300? It'll take a lot of 4.5% a year to make up for that, won't it?

Ponzis do work fine until they don't, that's sort of the point.

OK cool. Stay poor. But doesn't matter, it was a ponzi so wouldn't be your fault and the good lord will give you goodies for your esteemed rationality. 

Oh my life. I haven't seen a crypto bro use the "stay poor" meme in the wild since the whole thing started collapsing. Crypto bros are getting poor. I'd get out of the monopoly money scam while there is still time. The asset has no terminal value, no use value, and no yield. Its objective value is £0 and the only way it can stay above that is by each sucker finding a bigger sucker to unload to - and you're running out of suckers.

For what it's worth in the time since ETH started falling up to today when it's down around 66%, I'm up 19%.

We think more than a year or two, you know? And gone through more crypto cycles than may be one...But its okay, gush with your 19% for now.

And meanwhile lol at someone parroting such strong views after initially asking a question like 'How do you assess the creditworthiness of the borrower during ETH staking'!! The confidence is worth praising if anything...