BITCOIN

mooneysaver

DannyCarey said:

Hell my employer's share price is down 70% this year and they sell critical services, not deemed a speculative asset by the masses... 

Selling trainers is hardly a critical service

Frequentlyhere

hallmark said:

$15,737 currently.  You have to think there's an awful lot of leveraged positions / companies that won't be able to stand this level of falls very long.

This is it isn't it? With any normal good investment, you'd at least think/hope that lower prices now beget higher prices later as things recover. 

There's no such assurances with this guff. Lower prices make things even more precarious because as you say there's so much leverage and (frankly) fraud/shenanigans going on. If FTX can explode overnight, anything can.

Will it be a margin call on Saylor next?  Will it be Tether deciding the jig is up and vanishing into the ether? Perhaps some other shadowy firm no-one's even heard of will suddenly explode? Coinbase? Maybe the regulators will choose now as the time to pounce on Binance? Politicians meanwhile in general will now side against crypto which could be devastating to any idea of institutional adoption.

Then there's the ongoing background sell pressures. Miners need a steady flow of cash to pay their bills. There are also now several large stashes of Bitcoin (one found just last week with the arrest of that guy hiding it in a chocolate tin) that need to be sold into the market at some point.

Frequentlyhere

DannyCarey said:

This activity is nothing new in the "crypto space" but it will wash out bad actors over time, more stringent licensing will come into play and eventually people will realise that all the froth is worthless, but Bitcoin the protocol is very very different from the rest. 

I agree with most of what you say, but once your licensing (I assume you mean regulation?) is in place, how does that square with the very aims that Bitcoin was designed for?  If it's just another regulated asset that can't be used outside of the strictures of Government control, then what's the point?

DannyCarey

mooneysaver said:

DannyCarey said:

Hell my employer's share price is down 70% this year and they sell critical services, not deemed a speculative asset by the masses... 

Selling trainers is hardly a critical service

Nike (if that's what your wildly inaccurate guess is), isn't the only stock that's down 70%

DannyCarey

Frequentlyhere said:

DannyCarey said:

This activity is nothing new in the "crypto space" but it will wash out bad actors over time, more stringent licensing will come into play and eventually people will realise that all the froth is worthless, but Bitcoin the protocol is very very different from the rest. 

I agree with most of what you say, but once your licensing (I assume you mean regulation?) is in place, how does that square with the very aims that Bitcoin was designed for?  If it's just another regulated asset that can't be used outside of the strictures of Government control, then what's the point?

It can very much be used outside of government control. There are now decentralised exchanges popping up like bisq, where there is no KYC. Of course banks will probably end up blocking payments to there and the government will not like services like bisq, but once you acquire Bitcoin and it's transferred out to a wallet and another wallet, or on to someone else, it is very much out of the government's control. This is what it is designed for. The on and off ramps are the bit the governments are rightfully (or wrongly) aiming to get regulated along with exchanges having to actually have the reserves they claim, etc. 

History seems to repeat itself with these dodgy exchanges but I am sure in time it will have to be put right. 

Its well known that Gary Gensler who runs the SEC pretty much despises every other cryptocurrency that's not Bitcoin. 

DannyCarey

Frequentlyhere said:

hallmark said:

$15,737 currently.  You have to think there's an awful lot of leveraged positions / companies that won't be able to stand this level of falls very long.

This is it isn't it? With any normal good investment, you'd at least think/hope that lower prices now beget higher prices later as things recover. 

There's no such assurances with this guff. Lower prices make things even more precarious because as you say there's so much leverage and (frankly) fraud/shenanigans going on. If FTX can explode overnight, anything can.

Will it be a margin call on Saylor next?  Will it be Tether deciding the jig is up and vanishing into the ether? Perhaps some other shadowy firm no-one's even heard of will suddenly explode? Coinbase? Maybe the regulators will choose now as the time to pounce on Binance? Politicians meanwhile in general will now side against crypto which could be devastating to any idea of institutional adoption.

Then there's the ongoing background sell pressures. Miners need a steady flow of cash to pay their bills. There are also now several large stashes of Bitcoin (one found just last week with the arrest of that guy hiding it in a chocolate tin) that need to be sold into the market at some point.

This is an important  point. Crashes have cascading pressure on miners, especially those who are mining with expensive electricity costs. This is why miners are attracted to stranded assets, where the energy is near free and/or they get in partnerships with the energy infrastructure like how they operate in Texas where they can turn on and off as desired.
It encourages miners to seek out the cheapest and most efficient means of energy possible. 

Could be more downside to come, I am waiting for it to crash a little bit more to accumulate again. 

Johnjdc

Millyonare said:

Always amazed that so many people piled into peer-to-peer (P2P) cryptocurrencies. The earlier P2P loan industry had already been a train wreck for years before. The warning signs were there for a long time before Bitcoin and others!

These are completely different things. They're both nonsense (crypto much more so) but the P2P of crypto is more like the P2P of early illegal mp3 sharing than the P2P of Lendy.

Bitcoin is more like Pogs, beanie babies, or tulip bulbs, so the P2P in that could also be compared to, say, eBay.

DannyCarey

Johnjdc said:

Millyonare said:

Always amazed that so many people piled into peer-to-peer (P2P) cryptocurrencies. The earlier P2P loan industry had already been a train wreck for years before. The warning signs were there for a long time before Bitcoin and others!

These are completely different things. They're both nonsense (crypto much more so) but the P2P of crypto is more like the P2P of early illegal mp3 sharing than the P2P of Lendy.

Bitcoin is more like Pogs, beanie babies, or tulip bulbs, so the P2P in that could also be compared to, say, eBay.

Have any of those things you mentioned increased in value by 6,737.37% over a 13 year period? 

mooneysaver

DannyCarey said:

Johnjdc said:

Millyonare said:

Always amazed that so many people piled into peer-to-peer (P2P) cryptocurrencies. The earlier P2P loan industry had already been a train wreck for years before. The warning signs were there for a long time before Bitcoin and others!

These are completely different things. They're both nonsense (crypto much more so) but the P2P of crypto is more like the P2P of early illegal mp3 sharing than the P2P of Lendy.

Bitcoin is more like Pogs, beanie babies, or tulip bulbs, so the P2P in that could also be compared to, say, eBay.

Have any of those things you mentioned increased in value by 6,737.37% over a 13 year period? 

Tulips increased 10,000% in 12 years...

Its sort of why they mentioned them.

DannyCarey

mooneysaver said:

DannyCarey said:

Johnjdc said:

Millyonare said:

Always amazed that so many people piled into peer-to-peer (P2P) cryptocurrencies. The earlier P2P loan industry had already been a train wreck for years before. The warning signs were there for a long time before Bitcoin and others!

These are completely different things. They're both nonsense (crypto much more so) but the P2P of crypto is more like the P2P of early illegal mp3 sharing than the P2P of Lendy.

Bitcoin is more like Pogs, beanie babies, or tulip bulbs, so the P2P in that could also be compared to, say, eBay.

Have any of those things you mentioned increased in value by 6,737.37% over a 13 year period? 

Tulips increased 10,000% in 12 years...

Its sort of why they mentioned them.

Nonsense

https://www.history.com/news/tulip-mania-financial-crash-holland