Goodbye to private motoring...from just 9 years?

headpin

jon81uk said:

headpin said:

The UK cars produce approx. 0.16% of the worlds greenhouse gas emissions. And, bearing in mind the Chinese and Indian emissions are increasing year on year, then our percentage will become even smaller. So, once again the UK population pick up the tab for what is in effect a pointless exercise that will have little effect on the global total. 

Looks good politically, but will be like !!!!!! in the Ocean, nobody will be able to see any difference.

World emissions is not the point in our governments action.
Reducing pollution in towns and cities is the goal, so people aren't breathing in small particulates.

But this is a UK wide initiative driven by an International Agreement. I live in a village in the country and there is not an issue. If this was targeted I may agree. But it is not. And I do not have the luxury of access to public transport, so affordable and readily available private transport is essential. 

If tacking pollution in towns and cities were the prime objective this is a hammer to crack the proverbial if it is. But I think we all know that Boris wants to look good to his peers in other countries. There is no evidence to support the UK going solo and us picking up the consequences.

rtho782

50Twuncle said:

An average electric car consumes approximately 0.40 kWh/mile
So - with the average driver driving 15,000 miles per year - thats 6000 kWh per year per car/driver
If there are 40 million cars on the road in UK - Thats an extra 1,200,000 Mw of power needed - at the moment - the national grid produces 2,250 Tw - so this is an extra 50% on top of current production - which is a significant rise
The grid struggles as it is - so with an extra 50% - prepare for power cuts - or drive a lot less
Plus - this is just private cars - I dread to think of the amount that lorries/buses etc would consume !

I got as far as your first line which is a load of rubbish and stopped reading.
I used to have a 30kW leaf, now have a 52kW zoe, and both cars get 4 miles per kWh if I drive them normally and ~3.8 if I drive them like a loon. So more like 0.25-0.27kWh/mile.

Then you're about double the average UK mileage - https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/average-car-mileage-uk#:~:text=On a daily basis, cars,and 7,400 miles a year.

So it's more like 2000 kWh per year per driver. You're off by a factor of 3. And not much of the charging will be done during the day, mostly at night when the grid has capacity.


As for the original poster, I'm paying £174/month with no deposit for a Zoe 52kW GT Line Rapid charge, with 10,000 miles a year.
I literally can't have a petrol or diesel car for that price except maybe some horrible little smart car. And then I'd have to pay for fuel.

3 years ago I paid £199/m for a 30kW Leaf, so I have 73% more battery power now for 12.5% less.

At the current rates, it won't be long until EVs are cheaper to buy than ICE cars. By 2030 certainly.

Supersonos

This is such a non-discussion.

Plug-in hybrids will still be able to be sold, so cars will just have a battery and electric motor alongside the 3.5 litre engine.  The 12 mile electric range of the under-sized battery will circumvent the rules, even though no-one will ever actually plug them in and make use of the EV part.

But it might push companies to make EV range greater, EVs more like cars and less like ugly futurisitc transportation devices and, hopefully, cheaper.

frost500

The second hand Ev market will be a non starter. The batteries degrade after 5 years, and cost a hell of lot of money to replace. From 2030 everybody will rent EVs, not buy or lease.  But what happens if you live in a place with no drive, how do you charge?  (ie Millions of people).  
I suspect rapid charging will be common then. 

Where will the electric come from? Nuclear (the same tech from the navy). Wind. Gas. In that order. 
Btw what is worse, lithium mining or oil drilling? Both are catastrophic for the environment. Evs are not green.

Petriix

frost500 said:

The second hand Ev market will be a non starter. The batteries degrade after 5 years, and cost a hell of lot of money to replace. From 2030 everybody will rent EVs, not buy or lease.  But what happens if you live in a place with no drive, how do you charge?  (ie Millions of people).  
I suspect rapid charging will be common then. 

Where will the electric come from? Nuclear (the same tech from the navy). Wind. Gas. In that order. 
Btw what is worse, lithium mining or oil drilling? Both are catastrophic for the environment. Evs are not green.

The batteries don't just stop working after 5 years. The MG5 I'm buying has a 7 year warranty on the battery and it's likely to be at around 80% of it's initial capacity at that time.

There's already a booming second hand EV market and residual values are holding up really well. The MG5 is adding just £100 per month to our mortgage, which is roughly what it will save us in running and maintaining our old Diesel car.

Oh, and roughly half of the electricity will come from my own roof.  

frost500

People in flats don't have roofs to install solar panels. Private motoring is going to die off. People will not move as much. Working from home. Shopping from home. Fuel in 2030 will cost more than wine.

Sorry I am last centuries man. Fill up the old S3 for 60 quid, drive 400 miles wherever I want. 

Funny people with evs think they are green, saving the planet. Then they get on a plane for a cheap holiday and burn 1000s of litre of jp8 in doing so.

Herzlos

frost500 said:

The second hand Ev market will be a non starter. The batteries degrade after 5 years, and cost a hell of lot of money to replace.

That's what everyone thought when they were knew, but the batteries have lasted a lot better than expected. Sure, older ones will have a shorter range, but older petrol cars have a shorter range.

frost500 said:

People in flats don't have roofs to install solar panels. Private motoring is going to die off.

Maybe private motoring should die off. However, people in flats that still own a car will still be able to charge it unless they never use it. You'll be able to charge pretty much anywhere with a parking space, cinema, supermarket, work, train station, multi-storey, etc.

frost500 said:

Sorry I am last centuries man. Fill up the old S3 for 60 quid, drive 400 miles wherever I want.

Definitely last century. Can you imagine having a mini fuel dispenser at home, plug it in overnight and every morning you've got a full tank? Why would you bother doing something so inconvenient as having to go to a petrol station.

AdrianC

Supersonos said:

This is such a non-discussion.

Plug-in hybrids will still be able to be sold, so cars will just have a battery and electric motor alongside the 3.5 litre engine.  The 12 mile electric range of the under-sized battery will circumvent the rules, even though no-one will ever actually plug them in and make use of the EV part.

For five more years until 2035 - and the minimum range for PHEVs to qualify for most legal purposes (such as the London ULEZ) is currently 20 miles.

nottsphil

Mickey666 said:

50Twuncle said:

wongataa said:

ICE vehicles are not being banned  There will still be vast numbers of second hand ICE vehicles available for purchase for many years after 2030.  Also, by then electric cars will have dropped in price.

But what price will petrol be ?
Your average driver is going to be priced off the roads

 When trains were invented, some people said people would die of suffocation as they wouldn’t be able to breathe when travelling so fast.  When cars were invented some people said they would never catch on because there wouldn’t be enough chauffeurs.  

I suspect no more than a handful of people actually said that about trains - more likely it was only one. This was so absurd that it got written down in periodicals then years later, it gets picked up by incompetent historians who then report that the view was fairly common! Well it can't have been, because when trains were invented they were incapable of exceeding the speed of a human galloping on horseback!

In contrast, the view about lack of chauffeurs is quite plausible because drivers of the earliest cars had to be mechanics, due to the vehicles breaking down every few miles (if they were lucky!) 

GunJack

As for the original poster, I'm paying £174/month with no deposit for a Zoe 52kW GT Line Rapid charge, with 10,000 miles a year.

So that's double what my 18-y-o diesel costs to buy, own & run, without your leccy charges....