My dad has been scammed out of £19,000

Yahoo_Mail

Yorkshire_Pud said:

Dr_Crypto said:

I guess the scammer could either be the original payee or have also hijacked the payee’s account? 

You do get a text when amending a payee reference: 
“The payee details for [payee] have been updated on [date] as requested by you. If you didn't make this request, please contact us urgently.“

Isn’t the reference just a convenient aid memoir for the account holder? So it’s irrelevant to the recipients account details which are either a.deleted b.set up from scratch and doesn’t influence making payments.

No, the reference will be included in any payments sent. It's primarily for the recipients benefit, not the senders.

colsten

Yahoo_Mail said:

Yorkshire_Pud said:

Dr_Crypto said:

I guess the scammer could either be the original payee or have also hijacked the payee’s account? 

You do get a text when amending a payee reference: 
“The payee details for [payee] have been updated on [date] as requested by you. If you didn't make this request, please contact us urgently.“

Isn’t the reference just a convenient aid memoir for the account holder? So it’s irrelevant to the recipients account details which are either a.deleted b.set up from scratch and doesn’t influence making payments.

No, the reference will be included in any payments sent. It's primarily for the recipients benefit, not the senders.

The Reference is needed to correctly direct payments to accounts with many building societies, NS&I, and even the likes of RCI. I wouldn't think a 'competent' scammer would use one of these accounts, as they wouldn't be able to instantly move the money on to somewhere else. Mind you, there will be Baldrick-type scammers as well.......

AWOL84

NatWest have cancelled my dads online banking so can’t login to check but I did notice earlier that it said VOIP somewhere on there next to the payee name. Whatever that means? 

Wish I’d taken a note of it as can’t remember where it was now. 

Lorian

Does your dad still have his debit card in his possession?
VOIP generally means Voice Over IP 

kaMelo

With the greatest respect what the OP has stated is either not the whole story or not truthful..
This is very much like the Nationwide thread about being scammed with team viewer. When I pointed out that what the OP said happened was impossible they vanished never to return. As in that thread Team Viewer is a red herring.

As others have said it is impossible to change the sort code or account number, it just cannot happen. The only way is to create a new payee which will require using the debit card in a card reader, it's not optional.  To the OP, where is the debit card to this account?
Modifying a reference on an existing payee is possible without a card reader however it, in my own experience making payments to different Principality accounts, generates a warning text every single time without fail.

Maybe the account holder is embarrassed and not told the whole story or maybe they are unsure of what they did. Maybe it's just a made up story, we don't know. What we do know is what we've been told is not what happened.

AWOL84

kaMelo said:

With the greatest respect what the OP has stated is either not the whole story or not truthful..
This is very much like the Nationwide thread about being scammed with team viewer. When I pointed out that what the OP said happened was impossible they vanished never to return. As in that thread Team Viewer is a red herring.

As others have said it is impossible to change the sort code or account number, it just cannot happen. The only way is to create a new payee which will require using the debit card in a card reader, it's not optional.  To the OP, where is the debit card to this account?
Modifying a reference on an existing payee is possible without a card reader however it, in my own experience making payments to different Principality accounts, generates a warning text every single time without fail.

Maybe the account holder is embarrassed and not told the whole story or maybe they are unsure of what they did. Maybe it's just a made up story, we don't know. What we do know is what we've been told is not what happened.

Bloody hell. I came on here for some advice I didn’t come on here to be accused of making it up or telling porkies.

It is EXACTLY as I said.

He received a phone call from someone claiming that money was being taken from his account and they needed to rectify it instantly. They guided my dad through installing team viewer and from there my dad logged into his bank account.

At not a single stage did he use a card reader. He only has a text on his phone about the payee being AMENDED as I’ve said already. 

£19,000 has left his account under the name of a legitimate person he paid for something a year ago. What they’ve done I don’t know but what I’ve said is exactly what has happened.

kaMelo

AWOL84 said:

kaMelo said:

With the greatest respect what the OP has stated is either not the whole story or not truthful..
This is very much like the Nationwide thread about being scammed with team viewer. When I pointed out that what the OP said happened was impossible they vanished never to return. As in that thread Team Viewer is a red herring.

As others have said it is impossible to change the sort code or account number, it just cannot happen. The only way is to create a new payee which will require using the debit card in a card reader, it's not optional.  To the OP, where is the debit card to this account?
Modifying a reference on an existing payee is possible without a card reader however it, in my own experience making payments to different Principality accounts, generates a warning text every single time without fail.

Maybe the account holder is embarrassed and not told the whole story or maybe they are unsure of what they did. Maybe it's just a made up story, we don't know. What we do know is what we've been told is not what happened.

Bloody hell. I came on here for some advice I didn’t come on here to be accused of making it up or telling porkies.

It is EXACTLY as I said.

He received a phone call from someone claiming that money was being taken from his account and they needed to rectify it instantly. They guided my dad through installing team viewer and from there my dad logged into his bank account.

At not a single stage did he use a card reader. He only has a text on his phone about the payee being AMENDED as I’ve said already. 

£19,000 has left his account under the name of a legitimate person he paid for something a year ago. What they’ve done I don’t know but what I’ve said is exactly what has happened.

Firstly you don't know that as you weren't there. You are relying on what you have been told and assuming that is exactly what happened. As I indicated, maybe through embarrassment or confusion due to what has happened you are not getting the whole story.

It is impossible to amend a sort code and account number, it cannot be done.
The only way to set up a new payee in online banking is with a card reader, it's not optional. No card reader no new payee.

If a payment has been made to an existing payee then it's to an account/institution they have paid before. The only thing that can be changed in an existing payee is the reference, changing this without a card reader is possible and will generate warning text.

It's not impossible for this scam to work but the stars have to align for it to do so.
Where did the payment go to, as in bank or building society?    Put the sort code into here:

https://www.sortcodes.co.uk/sort-code-checker

whitesmith

Do you remember the name of the existing payee (sorry if you have already said)? One way to scam would be if eg the existing payee was, say, RCI or NS&I. The sort code and account number would not need to be changed as they are generic, so the scammer could set up, for example, a new NS&I direct saver, and all that would need to be changed was the reference field to direct the money to the new DS. No card reader would be required.

In fact, on thinking about it, isn't that a gaping security hole????

Dr_Crypto

It would have to involve the scammer having a "mark" with a pre-existing NS&I account as a payee and that mark having enough money to make such a scam worthwhile. Possible but seems unlikely. 
Has the OP checked with the original payee? I know the OP claims that payee was kosher but are they? Have they been scammed too?

Sobeboy15

AWOL84 said:

kaMelo said:

With the greatest respect what the OP has stated is either not the whole story or not truthful..
This is very much like the Nationwide thread about being scammed with team viewer. When I pointed out that what the OP said happened was impossible they vanished never to return. As in that thread Team Viewer is a red herring.

As others have said it is impossible to change the sort code or account number, it just cannot happen. The only way is to create a new payee which will require using the debit card in a card reader, it's not optional.  To the OP, where is the debit card to this account?
Modifying a reference on an existing payee is possible without a card reader however it, in my own experience making payments to different Principality accounts, generates a warning text every single time without fail.

Maybe the account holder is embarrassed and not told the whole story or maybe they are unsure of what they did. Maybe it's just a made up story, we don't know. What we do know is what we've been told is not what happened.

Bloody hell. I came on here for some advice I didn’t come on here to be accused of making it up or telling porkies.

It is EXACTLY as I said.

He received a phone call from someone claiming that money was being taken from his account and they needed to rectify it instantly. They guided my dad through installing team viewer and from there my dad logged into his bank account.

At not a single stage did he use a card reader. He only has a text on his phone about the payee being AMENDED as I’ve said already. 

£19,000 has left his account under the name of a legitimate person he paid for something a year ago. What they’ve done I don’t know but what I’ve said is exactly what has happened.

I don't think we should be here to judge, in these stressful times we should support the OP and try to provide some glimmer of hope. My sister in law has just been the victim of a push payment scam and she has lost £115,000 all the money from when her husband died recently.  She was so ashamed to tell us she left it too long for us to try and stop anything,  These disgusting people made her send money to an account which was in her name using the Monzo and Revolut banking apps they got her to send small amounts to begin with and then increased them.  They then had control of this account and have cleared all the funds out.  My advice to you is to report this to the police and they have some kind of online fraud department they will put you in touch with.  We then raised a detailed complaint to the bank (Lloyds).  They have just acknowledged after 56 days that they should have done more to protect her and they have offered 50% back.  We are not accepting this and we have raised a formal complaint with the Financial Ombudsman.  These type of people are scum of the earth and prey on the vulnerable and then cause undue amounts of stress to the victims.