My dad has been scammed out of £19,000

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth

AWOL84 said:

colsten said:

AWOL84 said:

Dr_Crypto said:

So they somehow changed the account number and sort code for that payee? 

I’ve had a look at the NatWest App and the only changes that can be made is to the reference and the amount.
Just trying to think how they’ve done that. 

I have only assumed the account details were somehow changed otherwise how else would the money be wired? 

If people and NatWest themselves are saying it’s impossible to do this without using a card reader then they must have used a different method.

As I say the payee name was the same as a legitimate one used nearly a year ago. My dad has a text from NatWest saying that the payee has been amended.

A card reader was not used at all today. 

I’ll update you all as soon as the bank have been in touch. 

As mentioned before, you cannot send £19,000 from a Natwest current account to a new payee w/o the use of the card reader. You also cannot change an existing payee w/o using a card reader, and you cannot change the account number and sort code of an existing payee. Natwest do not send the account holder a text message when an existing payee is changed, and all that can be changed is the Reference.

If £19,000 have indeed been sent from your father's account, there are a number of possibilities:

1. he is in collusion with the recipient of the money and is telling his wife and you a pack of lies on what happened. E.g. the alleged text message could have been spoofed by the recipient
2. he has severe memory lapse and doesn't remember using the card reader at least once, may be several times
3. you are not reporting the events as he reported them to you

Of course Natwest have got a lot more information than any of us have (precise login times, transaction details, IP address(es) etc) but they know, as we do, that events cannot be as you reported them because their systems simply don't allow the transactions you have described.

You are wrong on all 3 counts.

I’ve seen the text from NatWest myself which said about the payee being amended. It was definitely from NatWest as he received a further text asking for a code when we was on the phone to NatWest after realising the fraud had taken place.

 I’m not going to go over it any further as you clearly think I’m lying or making it or that my dad is.

Ill update everyone as soon as I have it. 

But I have received texts from NatWest on my phone saying my account has been closed due to fraud. I do not bank with NatWest. I am afraid, that although I do not bank with Nat West, why should their customers pay for your Father's mistake.

Not what you want to hear, but my bank do not allow the change of payee details, only deletion. I assume all banks operate the same way. My Bank also limit any transaction to £1,000 only on set up of a new payee.

I can only suggest, your father has been a victim of this push fraud a number of time prior to the events you describe, each time taking a further chunk of his savings. Why you've not found out before, is your father was too embarrassed to tell you!

leonj

My Dad got scammed like this about a year ago, they said they were from BT, they got away with about £5K before I unplugged the router.  He banks with HSBC and he has a little keypad thing to use, they still managed to get his money.  They couldn't recover the money but the bank reimbursed him out of good faith or something.  I have made it so he cannot install software on his computer now. Good luck

eskbanker

leonj said:

My Dad got scammed like this about a year ago, they said they were from BT, they got away with about £5K before I unplugged the router.  He banks with HSBC and he has a little keypad thing to use, they still managed to get his money.  They couldn't recover the money but the bank reimbursed him out of good faith or something.  I have made it so he cannot install software on his computer now. Good luck

Hopefully you're not under the impression that this will fully protect against authorised push payment scams?  The likes of TeamViewer may make it easier for fraudsters to push the buttons directly but many APP scams have been effected simply by instructing the victim to initiate the transfers themselves, so the only comprehensive response is vigilance and awareness....

Dr_Crypto

I'm still lost as to how they have executed the scam, TeamViewer or not. 
You cannot ammend the payee account details without the card reader, only the reference. Unless for some reason the Dad's account is set up to work without a reader (is this possible?)
I have some doubts about the original payee. Maybe they are the scammer? Or their account has also been hijacked but in that case how would the scammers know the Dad has enough money in his account to make it worthwhile and is sufficiently scam-illiterate to fall for it?
OP who is the original payee and are you sure they are kosher?

bradders1983

Maybe the original payee was some lovely travelling folk who nipped round last year and charged him £7k to clean his gutters.

Yahoo_Mail

bradders1983 said:

Maybe the original payee was some lovely travelling folk who nipped round last year and charged him £7k to clean his gutters.

Or tarmac his drive.

dggar

I would have thought that anybody tarmacing your gutters would want cash in hand before they were off down the road.

bradders1983

dggar said:

I would have thought that anybody tarmacing your gutters would want cash in hand before they were off down the road.

Depends how long a con you want to play I guess.

whitesmith

Well it must be awful for your father and I hope that he is not feeling too bad about it - I know it can be easy to think that one is at fault whereas of course your father is the victim in all this. Tell him it was not his fault and that it is very easy to fall for cons like this.

The facts seem to imply that Nat West allowed a payee change without a card reader so hopefully this will strengthen your grounds for complaint. In any case, unless someone has been grossly negligent the bank 'must' refund the full amount.

Yahoo_Mail

whitesmith said:

The facts seem to imply that Nat West allowed a payee change without a card reader so hopefully this will strengthen your grounds for complaint. In any case, unless someone has been grossly negligent the bank 'must' refund the full amount.

It really depends where the money went to. If the reference was a vital part of the scammer receiving the money then sure, but if it wasn't then it doesn't really change anything.