My dad has been scammed out of £19,000

Yahoo_Mail

colsten said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

colsten said:

sheramber said:

If they only changed the sort code as stated it is quite a coincidence that the account number for the new sort code was the same as the account number already held for the original sort code.

As has been said multiple times now, in Natwest online banking it is not possible to change the sort code or the account number of an existing payee.

What can be changed is the Reference, which in some cases (e.g. NS&I, RCI, some Building Societies and Credit Unions) would direct the payment to a different account. Thus people have asked what the sort code of the "old" payee is / who the that "old" payee is.

Yeah, it does appear you can indeed change the reference without the card reader if you simply go to make a payment and change the reference before you send it. Which does beg the question why you need to use your card reader to "amend" a payee but can happily change it without as long as you're willing to send at least 1p?

I just tried this.  1p to an account I last made a 4-figure payment to at the beginning of the month. It's the same payee I had changed the Reference for yesterday (which I had to confirm with the card reader)

1. Online: it asks me to confirm with the card reader. I didn't proceed as I don't have the card & the reader on me right now
2. App: went through fine but only because the amount was less than £1,000. 

Strange. I sent a tenner through via online banking after changing the reference just before sending it and just got a text.

colsten

Yahoo_Mail said:

colsten said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

colsten said:

sheramber said:

If they only changed the sort code as stated it is quite a coincidence that the account number for the new sort code was the same as the account number already held for the original sort code.

As has been said multiple times now, in Natwest online banking it is not possible to change the sort code or the account number of an existing payee.

What can be changed is the Reference, which in some cases (e.g. NS&I, RCI, some Building Societies and Credit Unions) would direct the payment to a different account. Thus people have asked what the sort code of the "old" payee is / who the that "old" payee is.

Yeah, it does appear you can indeed change the reference without the card reader if you simply go to make a payment and change the reference before you send it. Which does beg the question why you need to use your card reader to "amend" a payee but can happily change it without as long as you're willing to send at least 1p?

I just tried this.  1p to an account I last made a 4-figure payment to at the beginning of the month. It's the same payee I had changed the Reference for yesterday (which I had to confirm with the card reader)

1. Online: it asks me to confirm with the card reader. I didn't proceed as I don't have the card & the reader on me right now
2. App: went through fine but only because the amount was less than £1,000. 

Strange. I sent a tenner through via online banking after changing the reference just before sending it and just got a text.

Did you ever have to use the card reader, for any transaction on that account?

colsten

.......

Yahoo_Mail

colsten said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

colsten said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

colsten said:

sheramber said:

If they only changed the sort code as stated it is quite a coincidence that the account number for the new sort code was the same as the account number already held for the original sort code.

As has been said multiple times now, in Natwest online banking it is not possible to change the sort code or the account number of an existing payee.

What can be changed is the Reference, which in some cases (e.g. NS&I, RCI, some Building Societies and Credit Unions) would direct the payment to a different account. Thus people have asked what the sort code of the "old" payee is / who the that "old" payee is.

Yeah, it does appear you can indeed change the reference without the card reader if you simply go to make a payment and change the reference before you send it. Which does beg the question why you need to use your card reader to "amend" a payee but can happily change it without as long as you're willing to send at least 1p?

I just tried this.  1p to an account I last made a 4-figure payment to at the beginning of the month. It's the same payee I had changed the Reference for yesterday (which I had to confirm with the card reader)

1. Online: it asks me to confirm with the card reader. I didn't proceed as I don't have the card & the reader on me right now
2. App: went through fine but only because the amount was less than £1,000. 

Strange. I sent a tenner through via online banking after changing the reference just before sending it and just got a text.

Did you ever have to use the card reader, for any transaction on that account?

Ever? Probably. I generally don't get asked when sending to existing payees (well I don't remember it, I rarely use the account nowadays).  I did when I amended the reference via "Amend Payee" but didn't when I amended the reference through the payment screen.  I did get a text when I amended the reference on the payment screen saying the details had been changed, the same as when I used the card reader.

colsten

............

AWOL84

Spoken to NatWest again today to ask for an update. Turns out the case wasn’t raised properly yesterday by their team so it’s 24 hours lost but in a way it adds another string to our bow for a refund.

With all due respect to people on here saying my dad may not be telling the truth out of embarrassment etc I can assure you I know my dad better than anyone and that everything I have said is what has happened.
Stressed to the guys on the phone again today that the card reader wasn’t used and I asked how it was possible that a payee details be changed without that, he simply said the investigation team would look into this.

We’ve been told we will have an answer by next Wednesday so we’ve got to hang tight now. 

I find it staggering how so many people can get scammed and I’ve warned my dad (who is 79) time and time again about this, but these !!!!!! pray on the elderly and can manipulate them in such a way that any logical thinking can go out the window.

I’ve done untold amount of reading on this and it seems a refund boils down to whether the customer is negligent. Who defines the negligence? Anyone scammed is negligent to a degree.
Facts are my dad didn’t give his password or pin and nor did he use his card reader. What he has done is allowed team viewer to be installed and then allowed the scammer to take control and manipulated my dad into logging into his bank account whilst he was connected via team viewer.

Got to sit and hope now for positive outcome. 

Yahoo_Mail

colsten said:

............

Don't really know what to say.  Sent a tenner last night from RBS after changing the reference in the payment screen, no card reader required and text received saying details had been changed. Logged into my Natwest account just now and did the same thing in case there was some difference between the two brands, same thing. Reference changed, no card reader required, text received after the money left saying details had been changed.

eskbanker

AWOL84 said:

I’ve done untold amount of reading on this and it seems a refund boils down to whether the customer is negligent. Who defines the negligence? Anyone scammed is negligent to a degree.

Facts are my dad didn’t give his password or pin and nor did he use his card reader. What he has done is allowed team viewer to be installed and then allowed the scammer to take control and manipulated my dad into logging into his bank account whilst he was connected via team viewer.

Have you read this thread? https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5900610/nationwide-team-viewer-fraud-ombudsman/p1

A number of similarities with your situation, apparently with a happy ending once escalated to the ombudsman, albeit this was also greeted with further scepticism....

colsten

@AWOL84 You have still not told us what the sort code, or the bank/BS/etc, is the payment went to. Or who the "old" payee is which was apparently used. Can your Father remember what he changed the Reference to?

AWOL84

colsten said:

@AWOL84 You have still not told us what the sort code, or the bank/BS/etc, is the payment went to. Or who the "old" payee is which was apparently used. Can your Father remember what he changed the Reference to?

Online banking is suspended so cannot log in to check so I don’t know this information. 

The payee name that was updated was an old payee who my dad sent a small figure to back in November last year.

Dad didn’t make any changes. Once they had access via team viewer they’ve done whatever it was that was necessary to complete the transaction.

I know it’s a ridiculously stupid thing he has done but at 79 with the threats he received about his account he was simply manipulated by these people who prey on the likes of him.