My dad has been scammed out of £19,000

AWOL84

Yeah they got him to install Teamviewer and from there got my dad to log into his bank account and it appears they changed the details for an old payee and wired the money over. I find it absolutely absurd that the payment wasn't halted there and then by the bank and them try to reach him. Surely if theres a note on the system saying a payment was rejected how the hell was another payment allowed through? They must have tried one or two different things and eventually hit the jackpot.

Eco_Miser

MalMonroe said:

I'm more concerned about why and how anyone was allowed to withdraw such a large sum, electronically, in just one transaction.

It's not such a large sum, I've moved more.

NatWest's fraud department perhaps should have phoned to confirm the OP's father's intention, or perhaps they did, and that was the phone call that set the OP's alarm bells ringing.

Yahoo_Mail

Mickey666 said:

MalMonroe said:

The fact that there was a note on the account not to allow the withdrawal will go a long way to helping you recoup your dad's money. They ignored their own instruction. 

I'm more concerned about why and how anyone was allowed to withdraw such a large sum, electronically, in just one transaction. 

Let's hope they do a full and thorough investigation after they've returned your Dad's money. 

If they don't return it, you have a very good case to take to the Financial Ombudsman here.

Agreed.  I’ve never been able to transfer more than £10k in one transaction, but perhaps different banks have different limits (I’m not with NatWest).  Also, Isn’t 2FA supposed to help stop this sort of thing (though not infallible)?  Perhaps NatWest doesn’t use that either?

Best of luck to the OPs Father though.

https://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/about-us/personal-transaction Most seem to offer more than £10000.

Incidentally, I just logged into my RBS account (same system as Natwest) to see if my card reader was required to amend the sort code and account number of a payee and it won't let me change anything other than the reference, and even doing that required a card reader.  The only way to send money to a different sort code and account number combination is to set up a new payee and that also requires a card reader.

It can't have happened the way the OP claims it did, the OP's father definitely had to set up a new payee and use a card reader.  Probably won't make any difference with the complaint, but might best to find out exactly what happened before they speak to the bank again.

AWOL84

Eco_Miser said:

MalMonroe said:

I'm more concerned about why and how anyone was allowed to withdraw such a large sum, electronically, in just one transaction.

It's not such a large sum, I've moved more.

NatWest's fraud department perhaps should have phoned to confirm the OP's father's intention, or perhaps they did, and that was the phone call that set the OP's alarm bells ringing.

No phone call from Natwest. Just a text which my dad wasn't aware of till i got there to say that the payee details had been changed

Yorkshire_Pud

AWOL84 said:

Yeah they got him to install Teamviewer and from there got my dad to log into his bank account and it appears they changed the details for an old payee and wired the money over. I find it absolutely absurd that the payment wasn't halted there and then by the bank and them try to reach him. Surely if theres a note on the system saying a payment was rejected how the hell was another payment allowed through? They must have tried one or two different things and eventually hit the jackpot.

It’s quite possible for a separate and subsequent payment to be “allowed through” if it meets the banks criteria. What you didn’t say in your first post is that the payment that was rejected wasn’t the one that was allowed through. That makes it less likely that the bank is negligent. 

An account can be blocked completely but unless the triggers are there that won’t happen or everyday banking would become impossible.

Difficult to see also how an existing payees details could be amended, usually have to delete and set up a new recipient (to prevent fraud) and at the least use a card reader or react to an one time passcode to confirm.

colsten

Yahoo_Mail said:

Mickey666 said:

MalMonroe said:

The fact that there was a note on the account not to allow the withdrawal will go a long way to helping you recoup your dad's money. They ignored their own instruction. 

I'm more concerned about why and how anyone was allowed to withdraw such a large sum, electronically, in just one transaction. 

Let's hope they do a full and thorough investigation after they've returned your Dad's money. 

If they don't return it, you have a very good case to take to the Financial Ombudsman here.

Agreed.  I’ve never been able to transfer more than £10k in one transaction, but perhaps different banks have different limits (I’m not with NatWest).  Also, Isn’t 2FA supposed to help stop this sort of thing (though not infallible)?  Perhaps NatWest doesn’t use that either?

Best of luck to the OPs Father though.

https://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/about-us/personal-transaction Most seem to offer more than £10000.

Natwest is certainly £20,000, and scammers knew that. 

Yahoo_Mail said:

Mickey666 said:

MalMonroe said:

The fact that there was a note on the account not to allow the withdrawal will go a long way to helping you recoup your dad's money. They ignored their own instruction. 

I'm more concerned about why and how anyone was allowed to withdraw such a large sum, electronically, in just one transaction. 

Let's hope they do a full and thorough investigation after they've returned your Dad's money. 

If they don't return it, you have a very good case to take to the Financial Ombudsman here.

Agreed.  I’ve never been able to transfer more than £10k in one transaction, but perhaps different banks have different limits (I’m not with NatWest).  Also, Isn’t 2FA supposed to help stop this sort of thing (though not infallible)?  Perhaps NatWest doesn’t use that either?

Best of luck to the OPs Father though.

https://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/about-us/personal-transaction Most seem to offer more than £10000.

Incidentally, I just logged into my RBS account (same system as Natwest) to see if my card reader was required to amend the sort code and account number of a payee and it won't let me change anything other than the reference, and even doing that required a card reader.  The only way to send money to a different sort code and account number combination is to set up a new payee and that also requires a card reader.

It can't have happened the way the OP claims it did, the OP's father definitely had to set up a new payee and use a card reader.  Probably won't make any difference with the complaint, but might best to find out exactly what happened before they speak to the bank again.

Totally agree, it is not possible in Natwest online banking, or in the app, to change the sort code and account number of an existing payee. 

AWOL84

Yahoo_Mail said:

Mickey666 said:

MalMonroe said:

The fact that there was a note on the account not to allow the withdrawal will go a long way to helping you recoup your dad's money. They ignored their own instruction. 

I'm more concerned about why and how anyone was allowed to withdraw such a large sum, electronically, in just one transaction. 

Let's hope they do a full and thorough investigation after they've returned your Dad's money. 

If they don't return it, you have a very good case to take to the Financial Ombudsman here.

Agreed.  I’ve never been able to transfer more than £10k in one transaction, but perhaps different banks have different limits (I’m not with NatWest).  Also, Isn’t 2FA supposed to help stop this sort of thing (though not infallible)?  Perhaps NatWest doesn’t use that either?

Best of luck to the OPs Father though.

https://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/about-us/personal-transaction Most seem to offer more than £10000.

Incidentally, I just logged into my RBS account (same system as Natwest) to see if my card reader was required to amend the sort code and account number of a payee and it won't let me change anything other than the reference, and even doing that required a card reader.  The only way to send money to a different sort code and account number combination is to set up a new payee and that also requires a card reader.

It can't have happened the way the OP claims it did, the OP's father definitely had to set up a new payee and use a card reader.  Probably won't make any difference with the complaint, but might best to find out exactly what happened before they speak to the bank again.

No card reader was used, dad doesn't even known how to use it.

Text message from Natwest says "The payee details for XXX have been updated on the 27/10 as requested, if you didn't make this request contact us immediately"

Notepad_Phil

AWOL84 said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

Mickey666 said:

MalMonroe said:

The fact that there was a note on the account not to allow the withdrawal will go a long way to helping you recoup your dad's money. They ignored their own instruction. 

I'm more concerned about why and how anyone was allowed to withdraw such a large sum, electronically, in just one transaction. 

Let's hope they do a full and thorough investigation after they've returned your Dad's money. 

If they don't return it, you have a very good case to take to the Financial Ombudsman here.

Agreed.  I’ve never been able to transfer more than £10k in one transaction, but perhaps different banks have different limits (I’m not with NatWest).  Also, Isn’t 2FA supposed to help stop this sort of thing (though not infallible)?  Perhaps NatWest doesn’t use that either?

Best of luck to the OPs Father though.

https://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/about-us/personal-transaction Most seem to offer more than £10000.

Incidentally, I just logged into my RBS account (same system as Natwest) to see if my card reader was required to amend the sort code and account number of a payee and it won't let me change anything other than the reference, and even doing that required a card reader.  The only way to send money to a different sort code and account number combination is to set up a new payee and that also requires a card reader.

It can't have happened the way the OP claims it did, the OP's father definitely had to set up a new payee and use a card reader.  Probably won't make any difference with the complaint, but might best to find out exactly what happened before they speak to the bank again.

No card reader was used, dad doesn't even known how to use it.

Text message from Natwest says "The payee details for XXX have been updated on the 27/10 as requested, if you didn't make this request contact us immediately"

I wonder whether the payee was to a building society/similar where the account number is actually held as part of the reference number and so they just needed to change the reference rather than a sort code or account number??

AWOL84

Notepad_Phil said:

AWOL84 said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

Mickey666 said:

MalMonroe said:

The fact that there was a note on the account not to allow the withdrawal will go a long way to helping you recoup your dad's money. They ignored their own instruction. 

I'm more concerned about why and how anyone was allowed to withdraw such a large sum, electronically, in just one transaction. 

Let's hope they do a full and thorough investigation after they've returned your Dad's money. 

If they don't return it, you have a very good case to take to the Financial Ombudsman here.

Agreed.  I’ve never been able to transfer more than £10k in one transaction, but perhaps different banks have different limits (I’m not with NatWest).  Also, Isn’t 2FA supposed to help stop this sort of thing (though not infallible)?  Perhaps NatWest doesn’t use that either?

Best of luck to the OPs Father though.

https://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/about-us/personal-transaction Most seem to offer more than £10000.

Incidentally, I just logged into my RBS account (same system as Natwest) to see if my card reader was required to amend the sort code and account number of a payee and it won't let me change anything other than the reference, and even doing that required a card reader.  The only way to send money to a different sort code and account number combination is to set up a new payee and that also requires a card reader.

It can't have happened the way the OP claims it did, the OP's father definitely had to set up a new payee and use a card reader.  Probably won't make any difference with the complaint, but might best to find out exactly what happened before they speak to the bank again.

No card reader was used, dad doesn't even known how to use it.

Text message from Natwest says "The payee details for XXX have been updated on the 27/10 as requested, if you didn't make this request contact us immediately"

I wonder whether the payee was to a building society/similar where the account number is actually held as part of the reference number and so they just needed to change the reference rather than a sort code or account number??

Possibly mate I don't know, what happened once the scammer had access via Team Viewer is anyones guess. My dad doesn't have a clue, but definitely no card reader was used.

bradders1983

Notepad_Phil said:

AWOL84 said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

Mickey666 said:

MalMonroe said:

The fact that there was a note on the account not to allow the withdrawal will go a long way to helping you recoup your dad's money. They ignored their own instruction. 

I'm more concerned about why and how anyone was allowed to withdraw such a large sum, electronically, in just one transaction. 

Let's hope they do a full and thorough investigation after they've returned your Dad's money. 

If they don't return it, you have a very good case to take to the Financial Ombudsman here.

Agreed.  I’ve never been able to transfer more than £10k in one transaction, but perhaps different banks have different limits (I’m not with NatWest).  Also, Isn’t 2FA supposed to help stop this sort of thing (though not infallible)?  Perhaps NatWest doesn’t use that either?

Best of luck to the OPs Father though.

https://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/about-us/personal-transaction Most seem to offer more than £10000.

Incidentally, I just logged into my RBS account (same system as Natwest) to see if my card reader was required to amend the sort code and account number of a payee and it won't let me change anything other than the reference, and even doing that required a card reader.  The only way to send money to a different sort code and account number combination is to set up a new payee and that also requires a card reader.

It can't have happened the way the OP claims it did, the OP's father definitely had to set up a new payee and use a card reader.  Probably won't make any difference with the complaint, but might best to find out exactly what happened before they speak to the bank again.

No card reader was used, dad doesn't even known how to use it.

Text message from Natwest says "The payee details for XXX have been updated on the 27/10 as requested, if you didn't make this request contact us immediately"

I wonder whether the payee was to a building society/similar where the account number is actually held as part of the reference number and so they just needed to change the reference rather than a sort code or account number??

Deleted