Driving without seat belt - Online course or £100 Fixed penalty?

Scrapit

AdrianC said:

No, the only thing it means is that you don't understand the whole point of requiring mass wearing of facecoverings.

Or, seemingly, 80% of infections being asymptomatic.

You endorsing a cheap potentially poorly made sweat shop produced imported for a very low price mask or even just a snood or scarf over something that is built to the bristish standard is what I cannot understand.

AdrianC

Great, I'll get that strimmer faceguard after all. That's specified and tested as PPE to a British Standard, too.

One that's just as relevant at stopping your exhalations reaching other people.

[Deleted User]

The point of masks is to stop water droplets spreading around (aerosolisation) - these can contain the virus. They aren't intended to stop the virus itself as it's very small but it can still reduce the spread (though if you argue masks are pointless as the virus is too small, you can't also argue they stop you breathing as oxygen molecules are hundreds of times smaller). If you sneeze or cough into one of those shields, just as with masks with exhaust valves, the droplets can spray out the side, the same principle is why they recommend coughing/sneezing into your elbow rather than hands (even if you immediately sanitise you can still miss bits and wipe the sneeze droplets on the next thing you touch).

This video explains it very well, even the "cheap Chinese mask" (example, top right) reduces spray / spread vs no mask at all.

This video explains why a face shield is much worse than even a basic mask (and why the masks with exhaust valves are so bad)

Scrapit

AdrianC said:

Great, I'll get that strimmer faceguard after all. That's specified and tested as PPE to a British Standard, too.

One that's just as relevant at stopping your exhalations reaching other people.

It will be far and away better at stopping foreign object damage to your face than an ebay mask, although this pandemic isn't relevant to that situation. But inhaling a virus is entirely relevant hence the filtering mask that works over a pice of cloth that dont. 

Scrapit

Deleted_User said:

The point of masks is to stop water droplets spreading around (aerosolisation) - these can contain the virus. They aren't intended to stop the virus itself as it's very small but it can still reduce the spread (though if you argue masks are pointless as the virus is too small, you can't also argue they stop you breathing as oxygen molecules are hundreds of times smaller). If you sneeze or cough into one of those shields, just as with masks with exhaust valves, the droplets can spray out the side, the same principle is why they recommend coughing/sneezing into your elbow rather than hands (even if you immediately sanitise you can still miss bits and wipe the sneeze droplets on the next thing you touch).

This video explains it very well, even the "cheap Chinese mask" (example, top right) reduces spray / spread vs no mask at all.

This video explains why a face shield is much worse than even a basic mask (and why the masks with exhaust valves are so bad)

P3 filters the virus, a lesser filtering p2 mask does too. I have some of those for emergencies.

AdrianC

Scrapit said:
But inhaling a virus is entirely relevant hence the filtering mask that works over a pice of cloth that dont. 

Thank you for confirming you do not understand the point.

The point of you wearing a face covering is not to stop you inhaling "a virus".
It is to stop you exhaling aerosol droplets, which may carry a viral load, at other people.

Your mask with an exhaust valve does not do that.
The fabric face coverings you decry do do that.

This is why governments, public health authorities, and every other body responsible for managing the pandemic tells you not to wear masks with exhaust valves, but instead to wear fabric face coverings.
You are wilfully going against that scientifically-based advice because you know better.
Which brings us right back to the people who don't wear seatbelts, because they know better.

It's a beautiful demonstration of the kind of mindset in play, and I thank you cordially for it.

[Deleted User]

Scrapit said:

Deleted_User said:

The point of masks is to stop water droplets spreading around (aerosolisation) - these can contain the virus. They aren't intended to stop the virus itself as it's very small but it can still reduce the spread (though if you argue masks are pointless as the virus is too small, you can't also argue they stop you breathing as oxygen molecules are hundreds of times smaller). If you sneeze or cough into one of those shields, just as with masks with exhaust valves, the droplets can spray out the side, the same principle is why they recommend coughing/sneezing into your elbow rather than hands (even if you immediately sanitise you can still miss bits and wipe the sneeze droplets on the next thing you touch).

This video explains it very well, even the "cheap Chinese mask" (example, top right) reduces spray / spread vs no mask at all.

This video explains why a face shield is much worse than even a basic mask (and why the masks with exhaust valves are so bad)

P3 filters the virus, a lesser filtering p2 mask does too. I have some of those for emergencies.

What I am pointing out is simply that even the basic face masks are better at containing your "output" than the face shield particularly for sneezing etc. A double layer one, KN95 masks etc are obviously better for containing the spread - there is evidence plenty of the supposed KN95 masks are fake/don't meet the standard they are claimed to, hence why I would only treat them as stopping your spread, not providing safety. I ought to get around to getting a mask for cycling into the city with low level particulate filtering but I don't think I'd wear it around the supermarket or expect it to stop me getting infected if it's going to happen.

Scrapit

AdrianC said:

Scrapit said:
But inhaling a virus is entirely relevant hence the filtering mask that works over a pice of cloth that dont. 

Thank you for confirming you do not understand the point.

The point of you wearing a face covering is not to stop you inhaling "a virus".
It is to stop you exhaling aerosol droplets, which may carry a viral load, at other people.

Your mask with an exhaust valve does not do that.
The fabric face coverings you decry do do that.

This is why governments, public health authorities, and every other body responsible for managing the pandemic tells you not to wear masks with exhaust valves, but instead to wear fabric face coverings.
You are wilfully going against that scientifically-based advice because you know better.
Which brings us right back to the people who don't wear seatbelts, because they know better.

It's a beautiful demonstration of the kind of mindset in play, and I thank you cordially for it.

Keep buying into that propaganda. I'll stick with my training , experience and the engineering and science thanks.

Scrapit

Deleted_User said:

Scrapit said:

Deleted_User said:

The point of masks is to stop water droplets spreading around (aerosolisation) - these can contain the virus. They aren't intended to stop the virus itself as it's very small but it can still reduce the spread (though if you argue masks are pointless as the virus is too small, you can't also argue they stop you breathing as oxygen molecules are hundreds of times smaller). If you sneeze or cough into one of those shields, just as with masks with exhaust valves, the droplets can spray out the side, the same principle is why they recommend coughing/sneezing into your elbow rather than hands (even if you immediately sanitise you can still miss bits and wipe the sneeze droplets on the next thing you touch).

This video explains it very well, even the "cheap Chinese mask" (example, top right) reduces spray / spread vs no mask at all.

This video explains why a face shield is much worse than even a basic mask (and why the masks with exhaust valves are so bad)

P3 filters the virus, a lesser filtering p2 mask does too. I have some of those for emergencies.

What I am pointing out is simply that even the basic face masks are better at containing your "output" than the face shield particularly for sneezing etc. A double layer one, KN95 masks etc are obviously better for containing the spread - there is evidence plenty of the supposed KN95 masks are fake/don't meet the standard they are claimed to, hence why I would only treat them as stopping your spread, not providing safety. I ought to get around to getting a mask for cycling into the city with low level particulate filtering but I don't think I'd wear it around the supermarket or expect it to stop me getting infected if it's going to happen.

Kn95 is Korean standard, n95 is American, roughly equivalent to British p2 (slightly less effective but to several decimal places). Refrencing the n95 rating is bit like the ritcher scale, only used by the press and has no real meaning here.

DiddyDavies

Scrapit said:

 Refrencing the n95 rating is bit like the ritcher scale, only used by the press and has no real meaning here.

The ritcher scale has no real meaning anywhere.