UPDATE: Moving house - Europcar admin fee & awaiting NtH from Premier Parking Solutions HELP

OnTheRoadAgain2000

Redx said:

POFA defines the legal liabilities of Europcar , the correct path to follow , within timescales , if they wish to transfer keeper liability to a hirer

Thanks very much for this Redx. Clear and detailed. Much appreciated.

Good news that admin fee has been rolled back. I'll await any correspondence from PPS before posting again.

Basically, I just wanted to nail Europcar to the wall for this past two months of absolute and complete incompetence and, what I believe to be, lies. Would happily spend time outlining formal complaints to any relevant authorities or tie Europcar up in knots having them reply to constant requests from me. They shouldn't be able to treat customers like this. But will draw a line under it if that is the best thing to do.

Thanks again. You lot are all amazing.

Redx

We would like that too , because these hire and legal  firm's usually fail to follow correct procedures anyway

Put then we don't think poking the sleeping dog with a Sharp stick is good either

It's a dilemma I cannot answer , but at least you now know the score , unlike most people who hire or lease vehicles

OnTheRoadAgain2000

Redx said:

We would like that too , because these hire and legal  firm's usually fail to follow correct procedures anyway
Put then we don't think poking the sleeping dog with a Sharp stick is good either
It's a dilemma I cannot answer , but at least you now know the score , unlike most people who hire or lease vehicles

Exactly right. I'm learning loads during all this, which is great.

Will likely respond to Europcar email stating how disappointed I am with their actions over the past two months and I believe there to have been a mixture of incompetence and deceit. They have lost a customer for life. I'll point this out to them and be on my merry way.

Meanwhile, I'm ready and waiting should parking scammers issue anything.

KeithP

Post again on this thread if you get a Notice to Hirer.

Nine times out of ten... no, more like 99 times out of 100, The PPC fails to enclose the necessary Hire Documents with the NTH.

This then means a certain win for the Hirer - as long as the driver isn't identified..

Fruitcake

OnTheRoadAgain2000 said:

Fruitcake said:

As above, unless and until you get a NTH, PPS cannot transfer liability to the hirer. If they fail to comply with the requirements of Paras 13 and 14 of the PoFA, they still cannot transfer liability to the hirer, and won't (shouldn't) be able to transfer liability back to Europcar because the hire company have supplied the required documents. I do not believe the PoFA mentions a time limit for the hire company to provide said docs, only for the scammers to issue the docs to the hirer.

It's up to you what you want to do about Europcar. 

You could if you wish point out all their errors such as referring to the charges as a penalty and offence, and providing details of the hirer but alleging they were the driver. This is not within the knowledge of the sender, nor is the comment about the landowner passing full rights to the scammers, since I doubt Europcar know the identity of the landowner and certainly won't have seen the parking contract, and therefore these comments could constitute perjury if this went to court.

However, you do risk alienating them and them finding a reason to re-instate the charge.

Thanks Fruitcake. Every time I think I'm grasping some of this stuff I get confused again. Never mind.

I thought the hire company (Europcar in this case) had 28 days to transfer the liability to the hirer and if they didn't the liability remained with them as keeper and not the hirer? And then the parking scammers sent out the NtH and invoice etc to the hirer, thus kicking off the advice of what to do in the Newbies thread.

I can't quite figure out why Europcar have all of a sudden backed down, unless they have realised some big mistake and are trying to quietly back away.

I would really like to hammer Europcar, but as you say, I'm not quite sure of the right avenues or tactics and if there a risk of them changing their mind and requesting the admin fee again. This last part feels extremely unlikely given everything I now have from them in balck and white.

1) The driver is always liable (if known)
2) The hire company are liable if the scammers have got the NTK to them in time as per the PoFA.
3) The hire company are not liable if they provide the scammers with the hire docs as per the PoFA.
4) The hirer is liable if the scammers get the NTH to them in time as per the PoFA. 

I suggest you produce a timeline and compare the dates of the event/NTH/hire docs were delivered and compare them with that of the PoFA requirements. That way you will see if the scammers have already failed (or will fail by a certain date) to transfer liability.
If/when you get a NTH, you can also check that the correct docs have been included, and that the docs contain the correct information as per the PoFA.

Any failure to comply means liability cannot be transferred to the hirer.

nosferatu1001

Your deadline of 28 days is right, but its not a deadline. Its a min time before The PPC can take action against the hiring company
They can supply Hire details ANY TIME they like to the PPC, but if they don t do it within 28 days they risk the PPC taking them to court before they can supply the details

PPCs lie all the damned time, and claim that 28 day is the max tim eyou can give them hirer / driver details. this is a lie, and fraudulent

OnTheRoadAgain2000

Hi again all.
I've still yet to receive any communications at all from PPS. But I'm about to move house this week.
Do I have to inform them?
It would seem odd me getting in touch considering I have had zero contact with them at all. What would I even say? Would be a little silly for me to tell a company I have never in my life had dealings with that I'm moving house.
The only thing I have ever received is a letter from Europcar as detailed in the thread. Nothing ever in my name and not NtH or any other documents at all. Europcar apologised for their mistakes and backed down last year. Nothing heard since.
I plan on moving and not looking back.
Cheers

nosferatu1001

If you dont, then they might issue a claim to your old address, you lose, and you only find out about it when you apply for a mortgage....
Bad idea
So, what is the status of this? Is the ticket cancelled?
Inform their DPO of your new address for service. 

OnTheRoadAgain2000

That's the problem, there is no status. I have never had anything. Never a ticket or an NtH or anything at all in my name.
If it wasn't for Europcar forwarding me an NtK addressed to Europcar then I would never know about it. Europcar tried to charge me a £40 admin fee but backed down and apologised for it all in the end as they mishandled.
How can I be expected to inform someone I have never spoken to that I am moving house? It makes no sense.
"Dear Sir/Madam, We have never been in contact but please take note of my new address, Yours anonymous person".
I don't really want to contact PPS to say 'hey, shouldn't you have sent me a letter by now?'.

Le_Kirk

If Europcar have done their job properly, they would have completed a transfer of liability slip and named you as hirer/lessee.  Clearly they have not, so I suggest you advise Europcar (maybe to their Data Protection Officer) that as and from DD/MM/YY your address for service will be ................. and, if they send a transfer of liability slip to the PPC, then they MUST use this new address for service and not any other address they have.  Also, presumably you will do this anyway, set up a Royal Mail redirection service.