UPDATE: Moving house - Europcar admin fee & awaiting NtH from Premier Parking Solutions HELP

OnTheRoadAgain2000

Can anyone clear up the statement of liability signed when hiring a car?
I have the rental agreement signed when I picked up the car, but don't remember a statement of liability. What is it and when do you sign? I booked the car through Auto Europe website and paid them, which arranged the rental with Europcar.
I'm starting to understand all this a bit better now, including Schedule 4 of PoFA.
Thanks

twhitehousescat

they want tob  be pedantic and twist words , fines = invoices , PPC = regulatory body 

BECAUSE WE SAY SO <  , well they have cocked up now , they have broked the terms of there contact by failure to inform and supply info to LANDOWNER 

, invoice them for your time 

OnTheRoadAgain2000

twhitehousescat said:

they want tob  be pedantic and twist words , fines = invoices , PPC = regulatory body 
BECAUSE WE SAY SO <  , well they have cocked up now , they have broked the terms of there contact by failure to inform and supply info to LANDOWNER 
, invoice them for your time 

Thanks very much for highlighting this. I believe they have completely cocked up.
Will be interested to see how they try and wriggle out of this one.

OnTheRoadAgain2000

twhitehousescat said:

they want tob  be pedantic and twist words , fines = invoices , PPC = regulatory body 
BECAUSE WE SAY SO <  , well they have cocked up now , they have broked the terms of there contact by failure to inform and supply info to LANDOWNER 
, invoice them for your time 

If I understand correctly, the landholder mentioned in 12.1 of Schedule 4 of PoFA can also mean the agent authorised to deal with the land by the landholder?

This is in this government's guidance:
"Definition of “landholder” 1.1 Where a private landowner chooses to offer or restrict parking on his/her land, he or she may make arrangements for an agent to manage and operate the land, including charging drivers for breaking parking conditions. This guide uses the term “landholder” to mean either a private landowner or an agent (or agents) properly authorised by the landowner to manage and enforce parking on the land in question."
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9155/guidance-unpaid-parking-charges.pdf

However, either way, it now appears, in Europcar's own admission, that they failed to contact the landholder or the agent within 28 days, so therefore have not transferred liability correctly.

Redx

Hence why I mentioned it's a serious debate about the semantics regarding contracts and wordings and who is who and why

Plus not all contracts are with landowners , or valid , or up to date , or whatever

We see many cases where contracts fail basic scrutiny , therefore fail laws too

Redx

Hence why I mentioned it's a serious debate about the semantics regarding contracts and wordings and who is who and why

Plus not all contracts are with landowners , or valid , or up to date , or whatever

We see many cases where contracts fail basic scrutiny , therefore fail laws too

twhitehousescat

This is in this government's guidance:
"Definition of “landholder” 1.1 Where a private landowner chooses to offer or restrict parking on his/her land, he or she may make arrangements for an agent to manage and operate the land, including charging drivers for breaking parking conditions. This guide uses the term “landholder” to mean either a private landowner or an agent (or agents) properly authorised by the landowner to manage and enforce parking on the land in question."
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9155/guidance-unpaid-parking-charges.pdf

are you sure that is the latest doc , as it is rather old , dated refers only to the BPA , no ipc ,  and a special mention to london counsils , written when beer was a £1 a pint and patric Troy (bpa) was still looking up womens dresses 

OnTheRoadAgain2000

twhitehousescat said:

are you sure that is the latest doc , as it is rather old , dated refers only to the BPA , no ipc ,  and a special mention to london counsils , written when beer was a £1 a pint and patric Troy (bpa) was still looking up womens dresses 

haha, no I'm not sure. Just clicked on this link on gov website:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-section-56-and-schedule-4-of-the-protection-of-freedoms-act-2012-recovery-of-unpaid-parking-charges

I won't be pointing out to Europcar the distinction. I will simply be informing them they have failed to notify the landholder and the PPC within 28 days and have therefore failed to transfer liability as per Section 56 and Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012: 12.1.

If the PPC sent the NtK on 23 Sept and it is assumed Europcar received it on the second working day (in link below) after sending, then it took them 32 days to write a letter transferring liability.
https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

OnTheRoadAgain2000

Redx said:

Hence why I mentioned it's a serious debate about the semantics regarding contracts and wordings and who is who and why
Plus not all contracts are with landowners , or valid , or up to date , or whatever
We see many cases where contracts fail basic scrutiny , therefore fail laws too

And you were right to do so. Thanks again.

twhitehousescat

actually take this one step further , you signed contract , after reading it and understood and resd the "contact landowner" , why have they sent your info to a random company making a random acusation ,
I would give eurocar hire (or whoever) 28 days to show you a signed contract between the land ower and the parking co 

failure to prove a relationship , would be a breach of data protection