Tenant Flat Fire - Next stage - how to sell?

[Deleted User]

Thanks everyone.

The latest from the police is that the officers who were dealing with the daughter are currently on rest days as they have been working on it round the clock.

They found 'further evidence' which they would not discuss and tell me that the they taking the daughter through 'court committal proceedings'.

Someone called me yesterday to say that they saw the door to the flat wide open. With the pane of glass by the lock is missing. Obviously as I am a long drive away from the property, I cannot go and lock the chubb lock. So I consulted the police (in the tenants made any repercussions!)

I have followed the police advice. As landlady, I am obliged to secure the property. So I have got a company to change both yale and chubb and to replace missing glass. Then they have put a note on the front door which says from whom the tenant(and ONLY the tenant) may obtain a key.

This covers me til Monday when I can take full possession

The person who saw the front door open said the place is a complete wreck. Everything was black inside and everything destroyed.

They are not residing in the building. There are still no services like water and electricity. The section 21 expires on the 8th. Apparently that is when any obligation for me to rehouse also expires.

I have heard nothing from my tenant or her family. I have not tried to contact them.

I last saw daughter (b) outside the property on Tuesday, whilst the forensics were in the building. She was out of control, pacing up and down and having to be restrained by police from entering the flat. Shhe was shouting things at me - even accusing me of starting the fire!

She is a very aggressive person and I am afraid of her, in that she could easily physically attack.

I will meet the loss adjuster next week with the freeholder of the building - he also owns the flat above mine.

Everything has to be stripped out. Not only due to fire damage but also smoke damage. That includes plaster, plaster and lath, plasterboard and wood. The central heating system has to be replace due to heat expanding pipework and smoke damage to radiators - you could never clean them! Pipes burst due to fire melting solder, etc.

The loss adjuster will appoint a surveyor.

I am currently compiling a list of what needs replacing and what I want it replaced with - in terms of suppliers, etc.

I want to water and electric on as soon as possible but I personally don't mind if it is after my tenant's notice to quit is up.

What is 'frustration' - in terms of my position to repossess?

[Deleted User]

PS I have just had a call from victim support so I guess I must be a victim and therefore the fire was started intentionally.

sooz

cgw wrote: »

PS I have just had a call from victim support so I guess I must be a victim and therefore the fire was started intentionally.

not necessarily

victim support called me after I had to get a police incident no (for the bank) to say i'd dropped my debit card at a concert whilst mildly tipsy :rolleyes:

silvercar

Non- legal definition: A contract is frustated if there is no possible way it can be acted on eg for houses flooded in the Summer, the ASTs could be deemed to be frustrated because the houses were not in a position to be occupied during the life of the AST so equally the contract obligation for the tenants to pay rent was also nullified.

liz545

fimonkey wrote: »

WOW moral dilemma. Do you abide by your duty to society and those more needier than your tenants and therefore tell the HA that they are from hell, thus putting them further down the housing list but making your immediate problem worse cos you technically have to re-house them, Or do you NOT say anything to the HA, even help them get HA house to get them off your back?

Personally, I'd inform the housing association of the circumstances - it's doubtful, considering the information they've already gathered about the tenant that she'd be considered a priority case anyway and it seems pertinent that there's an ongoing police investigation. Furthermore, if there are any charges brought against the tenant or any guest of the tenant you should mention them if asked for a reference in the future (even if the charges are subsequently dropped); and seek restraining orders against both daughters. This is an awful thing for you to go through, and my heart goes out to you!

clutton_2

i do hope you have some help in all this - is there a good local letting agent who might take this on as a one-off project, so that he can go and let builders/suppliers/utility folks etc in to the property so at least you don't have to drive all that way - or is there a sympathetic neighbour who you can pay £100 or so to act as keykeeper - they will be well chuffed that this woman is gone

camomile tea often helps in dreadful times like these....

[Deleted User]

I have just arranged to have the locks changed. I have to. The police said that it is my duty to secure the building.

The locks will changed tomorrow.

The freeholder will be there. I can't think of anyone to leave keys with. This is because it would not be fair. They are such an aggressive family.

I am afraid of them. I can't ask anyone else and no agent in their right mind would take it on. I've tried one.

So I can have a note left on the door that I have the keys.

The tenant has made copies of the original keys - expressly forbidden in the contract. I don't know who has copies.

Finding the door wide open yesterday, during their tenancy.......it potentially puts the other four flats in the building at risk. The police said I am obliiged to secure it.

I would have naturally expected to have vacant possession on 9th December. That is when the section 21 expires.

I have heard nothing from the tenant since Tuesday, when her daughter(b) had to be restrained from entering the building - police were outside with a van and the home office forensic scientists were inside. She was screaming abuse and wouldn't let me speak to police.

There is no question of the flat being habitable. The owner of the flat above has seen some photos of his flat. It is completely blackened with a hole burnt through the floor in the back room. His tenant went to hospital to be treated for smoke inhalation - he is asthmatic.

The pipes in my flat have burst as the solder melted.

I don't want to contact my tenant because the daughter (b) screams down the phone. The last time we spoke, she said there would be 'consequences' - then the fire happened.

So I am not keen to phone.

I understand that the daughter who is in custody has severe mental health problems. It must have been terrible for her mother to try to manage her. She was previously evicted from a hostel for violence and damage to the property. She was recently in court for shop lifting and physically attacking someone in the street. she is a very troubled person.

I have to have work done in the place in order that sewage, water and electricity can be restored for the other people in the building.

Not least the elderly frail leaseholder on the top floor. He is currently in bed and breakfast and very unhappy and unnerved.

So my flat cannot possibly be occupied for months.

At least any responsibility I may have for these people ceases tomorrow.

I will have to find out what to do with any of her remaining property.

I'm not unsympathetic, I'm a nice girl, but I am not confident of being safe around them.

[Deleted User]

Originally Posted by fimonkey
WOW moral dilemma. Do you abide by your duty to society and those more needier than your tenants and therefore tell the HA that they are from hell, thus putting them further down the housing list but making your immediate problem worse cos you technically have to re-house them, Or do you NOT say anything to the HA, even help them get HA house to get them off your back?

Personally, I'd inform the housing association of the circumstances - it's doubtful, considering the information they've already gathered about the tenant that she'd be considered a priority case anyway and it seems pertinent that there's an ongoing police investigation. Furthermore, if there are any charges brought against the tenant or any guest of the tenant you should mention them if asked for a reference in the future (even if the charges are subsequently dropped); and seek restraining orders against both daughters. This is an awful thing for you to go through, and my heart goes out to you

Thanks so much. I have told the HMO officer at the council and I have been arranging for the council tax people to visit and see that it is uninhabitable.

I need to talk to the council housing dept on Monday.

As my tenant was on benefits and I was accepting the basic housing benefit as rent (ie not asking for my tenant to pay a top up. I know I'm stupid but I felt that it is awful to ask anyone on benefits to find extra money to meet the true rental).

I need to find out my position. I don't want the housing benefit to pay me after the contarct is over and the section 21 has expired. If the tenant has some claims(?) on my property, I may at least be getting rent.

I also may need to tell the benfits office that she has had someone else living there.

I don't want to. But.....

A fellow landlord failed to do this and admitted that he knew the tenant had someone else living there and the benefits office held him liable and complicit to fraud and demanded money back.

[Deleted User]

I do have access to a legal helpline on the insurance

[Deleted User]

The tenant has effectively left the property. I will talk to the landlord and mention the breaches of contract as well as the fire - thanks so much for this