Tenant Flat Fire - Next stage - how to sell?

lynzpower · 5 December 2007 at 10:17PM

is it possible, under the circumstances that you could

serve your S21
apply for a restraining or similar order, to restrain the tenants from coming within X amount of you and the property. I know it IS possible to do this if they are named tenant, as we did similar cases when I worked with women dealing with domestic violence, you can get order ( sorry cant remember which) to stop someone coming within X metres of the property.
Under these circumstances, they cannot argue nor can you that it remains REASONABLE for them to continue to occupy. I would also take legal advice that they couldnt come within X metres of YOU - as if they are suspected arsonist who have purposely damaged YOUR property, then it follows they are REASONABLY SUSPECTED to wish to harm you. Additionally if you can get this through, then you wouldnt be able to sign a new contract with them in any case.

If the property is in such a bad state, I presume you cant start making it habitable until insurance coughs up. So you have this going for you. Although Alleycat is correct, as the property is not fit for habitation YOU have to provide accom by law to them. :wall: Clearly , you need criminal law to be on your side over such legislation .Heres hoping that her majesty houses them and not you!

Keep us informed, I feel for you.

sooz · 5 December 2007 at 10:21PM

thanks for updating us cgw.

Now go and have a big drink.

When you are feeling up to it, start hunting for all those receipts that you kept when you did the refurb, as the insurance co. will need them (or you will to fill in all the forms

)

No-one died, and your insurance will cover the rebuild/refurb and the place will look wonderful - eventually.

BTW - 're-nabbed' is a fab word!

[Deleted User] · 6 December 2007 at 6:32AM

Thanks so much you guys.

As I served the tenant an S21 nearly 2 months ago (it expires on 8th December), I was intending originally, by that notice, to have vacant possession on 9th.

So I can get the locks changed on Monday.

There was a lot of white painted tongue and groove - the flat is 10 minute walk from sea.

I will take a break when the phone stops. I was worried about the elderly frail leaseholder on top floor who has been moved into bed and breakfast 6 houses away. But I spoke to his social worker yesterday.

lynspower - I am off to work with a group of women from a refuge this morning! I work in the arts and do a lot of projects with community groups.

I've been so busy dealing with everything, that I don't think it's hit me.

Sooz - I've decided 're-nabbed' should be a demi-legal term. To be used by people suffering from jargonphobia.

Indeed possibly also the term 'demi-legal' which I have never come across before I wrote it!

Thanks for your support sooz, lynspower, alleycat, cherryblossom, scrummy.

carpetbelly · 6 December 2007 at 10:07AM

As I served the tenant an S21 nearly 2 months ago (it expires on 8th December), I was intending originally, by that notice, to have vacant possession on 9th.

So I can get the locks changed on Monday.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I was under the impression that you'd still have to go through the courts to regain possession rather than just change the locks.

I really feel for you for all this though, I hope you've had a lot of booze so far

clutton_2 · 6 December 2007 at 10:27AM

what a terribly tale, i am so sorry that all this has happened - you must be in shock still. this is every landladys worse nightmare, and so near christmas as well.

Can you get this woman sectioned ?

However, i agree with carpet belly - you cannot change the l ocks as the house is still in the "tenantship" of your tenant, and yes, you are legally responsible for re-housing them until the bailiffs arrive to turf them out.

re the fire and the local housing authority - i would not tell them that you think it is the tenant who set fire to the house until she is charged - no point in presenting them with "non-evidence" which may dissuade them from re-housing her !!!

please check your insurance policy to make sure that you are covered for tenant damage, and if so, what the excess is - it is often quite a hefty sum - mine is £1000.

very best wishes

sooz · 6 December 2007 at 10:33AM

carpetbelly wrote: »

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I was under the impression that you'd still have to go through the courts to regain possession rather than just change the locks.

I really feel for you for all this though, I hope you've had a lot of booze so far

cgw - have you had this confirmed by your insurance appointed lawyer?

Normally, if your tenant hadn't set fire to the place, you would need to go through the courts, and you wouldn't be able to just change the locks the day after the section 21 expires.

However, if the property - and indeed whole building - is currently uninhabitable, then has your contract been ended by frustration? In which case, the date of your section 21 wouldn't matter - you could change the locks and make the building secure at any time, as soon as the police allow you access.

I know the contracts I use have a standard clause about the end of a tenancy in the event of fire, flood or tempest. (what is a tempest?.. I guess they don't mean the play )

Please check this with a solicitor...

silvercar · 6 December 2007 at 2:43PM

However, if the property - and indeed whole building - is currently uninhabitable, then has your contract been ended by frustration? In which case, the date of your section 21 wouldn't matter - you could change the locks and make the building secure at any time, as soon as the police allow you access.

That expression was used at the time of the floods, when houses became inhabitable and contracts became void.

As the tenancy was due to end and the property has been vacated (albeit by circumstances) I would have thought it reasonable to change the locks.

carpetbelly · 6 December 2007 at 2:45PM

Solicitor needs to be consulted to confirm all that then. Good luck with it!

fimonkey · 6 December 2007 at 3:37PM

Alleycat wrote: »

With regard to future housing for this household, I would suggest you be totally frank with the Housing department if they contact you for information regarding reasons for eviction. Especially if it turns out that it was arson by these people. If not they could be prioritised over and above genuinely unintentionally homeless people which would be unfair to those really in need.

WOW moral dilemma. Do you abide by your duty to society and those more needier than your tenants and therefore tell the HA that they are from hell, thus putting them further down the housing list but making your immediate problem worse cos you technically have to re-house them, Or do you NOT say anything to the HA, even help them get HA house to get them off your back?

Know which one I'd do.

BTW, where are your tenants currently living now then? (daughter a still at HM's pleasure)?

clutton_2 · 6 December 2007 at 8:22PM

i would simply not respond to requests for tenants references - if you give a good one and she sets fire to another flat you may be culpable

i think i would also change the locks right now - "emergency maintaining security and all that.,"

as long as you put a notice in the window saying "anyone with the right of legal access to this property can call the following number" - this proves you are not locking her out, but offering her another way in.

i was given this advice by NLA in a similar type of circumstance.

Tenant Flat Fire - Next stage - how to sell?

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