Tenant Flat Fire - Next stage - how to sell?

[Deleted User]

eldwardo - I feel the same.

My tenant was a mild, but increasing pain. When I knew she was planning to move, I was pleased. I thought she would naturally move at the end of her tenancy. She became difficult and started to cause trouble.

When my tenant told me that THE COUNCIL told her that I had to get a court order to get her out, I didn't believe it.

I phoned the council housing dept and asked if they gave that sort of advice.

First they would not discuss it with me. Then they said that they commonly gave the advice that tenants should 'sit tight' until a landlord gave them a section 21 and then got a court order (accelerated possession).

I was shocked and told them so. Because it means that a tenant - in order to get council housing, will cause increasing problems until they are issueda section 21. Then refuse to go and make the LL get a court order!

I told the council that i thought it was ridiculous advice. It unfairly raises someone up the council housing list, it costs money for the court order(which has to come out of the tenant's deposit - and they may not be well off), it wastes everyone's time including the courts.

The council told me this was common practice for local authorities and virtually said I was stupid if I did not know or objected about this. I asked to speak to someone else but there was no one.

I was told someone would callme - they never did.

I have since found out that this is common practice. If a tenant leaves at the end of their tenancy, or at section 21, they are viewed as making themseleves intentionally homeless.

I'm just renting out a flat, but I object to being put in this position.

So - far from colluding - I didn't get a choice!

She tried to make out that my flat was not suitable in order to get rehoused and eventually torched it.

Colluding - I think not!

paintpot

Firstly, as a landlord myself I would like to offer my sympathies to you. It really is probably one of the worst things you could face as a landlord other than death and fortunately in this instance no-one died.

You haven't "colluded" with anyone, you are simply a victim of the housing system in this country and what you have described is perfectly typical.

I don't want to offer you advice that I am not qualified to but what I would say, if you do remove her property in order to refurbish the flat and restore services you must keep them in storage and make them available to the tenant at their request. Do not send them to the local tip which you might dearly wish to do. I would put anything you wish to communicate to the tenant in writing and explain you are holding their property and can be contacted by telehone/address etc for collection but that's just my opinion. Take photos if possible of them in situe and itemise them so she can't accuse you of pinching anything and take a (independent) witness if possible to do so. Try and protect yourself as best you can against any come back the tenant.

All the best

eldowardo

curious after reading some more of your story, is why you didnt let the tenancy expire after the shorthold period and decide not to renew it?

if the tenant then refused to move you would then apply to court to have rid of her?

paintpot

eldowardo wrote: »

curious after reading some more of your story, is why you didnt let the tenancy expire after the shorthold period and decide not to renew it?

if the tenant then refused to move you would then apply to court to have rid of her?

where are you coming from with this question please out of interest?

eldowardo

well it seems strange that you have shorthold tenancies to get rid of pesky tenants - yet this guy seems ot have a major problem removing this woman, even though she is a nutter. Im trying to work out how long was left on her tenancy, then when that ran out you say, thanks for being my tenant but youll have to now leave.

I dont want to be nasty to this landlord, Im feeling sorry for him, and the orignial post I was unaware of the housing dept advice. I can see why he did it now!

paintpot

eldowardo wrote: »

well it seems strange that you have shorthold tenancies to get rid of pesky tenants - yet this guy seems ot have a major problem removing this woman, even though she is a nutter. Im trying to work out how long was left on her tenancy, then when that ran out you say, thanks for being my tenant but youll have to now leave.

I dont want to be nasty to this landlord, Im feeling sorry for him, and the orignial post I was unaware of the housing dept advice. I can see why he did it now!

I see. However, even if the tenancy is fixed and it runs out, you can't just say "thanks for being my tenant you have to leave now" you still have to serve two months. Maybe he didn't realise from the outset she was a nutter, I can't remember without rereading all the threads. I just know that even if he hasn't handled the technical aspect of ridding himself of the tenant as soon as and as best he can using the legal system available, it would be hard to foresee a tenant burning your flat to ground (and potentially all those innocent people in neighbouring flats) so I feel I can only extend my sympathies to him. And I realise you do too.

[Deleted User]

Thanks so much paintpot - actually I'm a landlady.

You are quite right when you say:
Firstly, as a landlord myself I would like to offer my sympathies to you. It really is probably one of the worst things you could face as a landlord other than death and fortunately in this instance no-one died.

You haven't "colluded" with anyone, you are simply a victim of the housing system in this country and what you have described is perfectly typical.

As you say:

I see. However, even if the tenancy is fixed and it runs out, you can't just say "thanks for being my tenant you have to leave now" you still have to serve two months. Maybe he didn't realise from the outset she was a nutter, I can't remember without rereading all the threads. I just know that even if he hasn't handled the technical aspect of ridding himself of the tenant as soon as and as best he can using the legal system available, it would be hard to foresee a tenant burning your flat to ground (and potentially all those innocent people in neighbouring flats) so I feel I can only extend my sympathies to him. And I realise you do too.

Again - quite right paintpot. I had no idea! As far as I was concerned, I was letting to one woman. I was tolerant of her problems, but I can't deal with them any more.

Her other daughter(not the one in custody) is very aggressive and I don't want to meet them on my own. I dealt with everything as it came up.

I don't know where I could store a load of burnt stuff.

It includes beds and sofa. I don't have the resources to store it.

Who would pay for it?

I don't have anywhere to put it and I can't imagine a storage company being keen on blackened, wet upholstery.

What on earth should I do?

There are mounds of horrible large stuffed toys all charred and wet from the fire hoses.

kunekune

I might be wrong, but my impression throughout has been that OP is a woman ... I suppose that's not relevant, except that it would be nice not to have a stereotype of the LL as male.

And as for "hasn't handled the technical aspect ... as best he can", I would strongly disagree. The OP did everything that could be done to ensure that somewhat nutty tenant would move out at the earliest possible opportunity. The s21 notice was served to end on the day the AST was due to finish. Not sure what else a landlord can do differently. It's just that it wasn't enough in the circumstances.

silvercar

I think you would need to put a notice on the flat saying that the possessions are being stored safely and are available for collection upto XX date after which they will be disposed of.

I suspect you would have to allow a reasonable amount of time for collection to be arranged, especially as you suspect tenant is homeless at the moment.

As the possessions are already damaged, a locked garage seems a secure option, further damp is hardly likely to deteriate the contents more.

[Deleted User]

I might be wrong, but my impression throughout has been that OP is a woman ... I suppose that's not relevant, except that it would be nice not to have a stereotype of the LL as male.

And as for "hasn't handled the technical aspect ... as best he can", I would strongly disagree. The OP did everything that could be done to ensure that somewhat nutty tenant would move out at the earliest possible opportunity. The s21 notice was served to end on the day the AST was due to finish. Not sure what else a landlord can do differently. It's just that it wasn't enough in the circumstances.

Thanks KK - I am a woman.

I also did most of the work in my flat myself. I'm practical.

I actually gave my tenant two months s21 to commence when her AST ended.

There was nothing else I could do and was preparing the accelerated possession when I got the call about the fire.

Oh...I've just had a thought that the insurance would pay for storage. It has all been searched by forensics.

The tenant left the front door of the property open on Wednesday, so I don't know what is left or what condition it's in.

What should I do about her stuff, it will start stinking soon - soaked burnt upholstery and stuffed toys etc.?