Expensive phone discarded by Amazon Returns

Fentoozler90

Manxman_in_exile said:

What was wrong with the one from Amazon again?  Couldn't you distinguish them that way?

No matter.  If you can't persuade someone at Amazon that their T&Cs do not allow them to destroy or "discard" your property without paying you compensation, then you will have to either (1) sue them - with all that may entail - or (2) write it off as a lesson learned.

There was nothing wrong with it they both had the new apple M1 chip instead of an intel so I couldn’t run windows in a window on it so after they said I could return it I bought an intel variant from Amazon and then returned the M1 chip.

ramthor

Fentoozler90, sorry to hear about your issues with Amazon.

I am the original poster on this thread which I did ask to be deleted after all the hostility received for only asking for advice on a public forum supposedly aimed at helping the consumer. I see you are getting the same treatment as I have been given which is sad but not surprising for me. That's why I never posted anything here since and I never will. This reply is because I got notified on my email about the thread being active again after such long time.

If you are interested to know what happened to the phone that Amazon "discarded" just because they could... well it's still discarded and no compensation was ever given. I returned the non-5G version that I bought from Amazon and issued a full refund and that's it as far as Amazon is concerned. 

If this thread remains visible, then it can act as a warning for other people in the same situation: if you make a mistake in returning something to Amazon, you can say good-bye to it forever. You're never going to see it again.

Bottom line, Amazon is above the law and posting for advice on this forum is a waste of time.

Manxman_in_exile

ramthor said:

Fentoozler90, sorry to hear about your issues with Amazon.

I am the original poster on this thread which I did ask to be deleted after all the hostility received for only asking for advice on a public forum supposedly aimed at helping the consumer. I see you are getting the same treatment as I have been given which is sad but not surprising for me. That's why I never posted anything here since and I never will. This reply is because I got notified on my email about the thread being active again after such long time.

If you are interested to know what happened to the phone that Amazon "discarded" just because they could... well it's still discarded and no compensation was ever given. I returned the non-5G version that I bought from Amazon and issued a full refund and that's it as far as Amazon is concerned. 

If this thread remains visible, then it can act as a warning for other people in the same situation: if you make a mistake in returning something to Amazon, you can say good-bye to it forever. You're never going to see it again.

Bottom line, Amazon is above the law and posting for advice on this forum is a waste of time.

I think if you bothered to read the replies to this thread properly you will see that you were given good advice from the outset.  In the very first reply Aylesbury_duck advised you to make a written complaint to Amazon (if you had not already done so) and that if that did not resolve the matter then you would have to sue them etc etc.  That advice was later repeated by Aylesbury_duck and also by Waamo.  It's basically the same advice that I've given to Fentoozler90 above earlier today, except that I've added that Amazon need to be sued for the tort of conversion where they've deprived somebody of their property.

It's true that some posters (including myself) queried how you could possibly have mistakenly returned your husband's phone to Amazon rather than the one you had just bought from them.  It seemed an unlikely thing to have happened.  You were told at the time that Amazon would also almost certainly challenge your account of what had happened so it would be as well for you to get used to defending your version of events rather than everyone saying how sorry they were for you for making such a mistake.

Amazon aren't above the law but they will continue to act as if they are so long people allow them to get away with it by not suing them.  Did you follow the advice to send them a Letter Before Claim and then follow it up?

(FWIW I don't buy anything from Amazon because I don't like how they do business... )

Fentoozler90

Manxman_in_exile said:

ramthor said:

Fentoozler90, sorry to hear about your issues with Amazon.

I am the original poster on this thread which I did ask to be deleted after all the hostility received for only asking for advice on a public forum supposedly aimed at helping the consumer. I see you are getting the same treatment as I have been given which is sad but not surprising for me. That's why I never posted anything here since and I never will. This reply is because I got notified on my email about the thread being active again after such long time.

If you are interested to know what happened to the phone that Amazon "discarded" just because they could... well it's still discarded and no compensation was ever given. I returned the non-5G version that I bought from Amazon and issued a full refund and that's it as far as Amazon is concerned. 

If this thread remains visible, then it can act as a warning for other people in the same situation: if you make a mistake in returning something to Amazon, you can say good-bye to it forever. You're never going to see it again.

Bottom line, Amazon is above the law and posting for advice on this forum is a waste of time.

I think if you bothered to read the replies to this thread properly you will see that you were given good advice from the outset.  In the very first reply Aylesbury_duck advised you to make a written complaint to Amazon (if you had not already done so) and that if that did not resolve the matter then you would have to sue them etc etc.  That advice was later repeated by Aylesbury_duck and also by Waamo.  It's basically the same advice that I've given to Fentoozler90 above earlier today, except that I've added that Amazon need to be sued for the tort of conversion where they've deprived somebody of their property.

It's true that some posters (including myself) queried how you could possibly have mistakenly returned your husband's phone to Amazon rather than the one you had just bought from them.  It seemed an unlikely thing to have happened.  You were told at the time that Amazon would also almost certainly challenge your account of what had happened so it would be as well for you to get used to defending your version of events rather than everyone saying how sorry they were for you for making such a mistake.

Amazon aren't above the law but they will continue to act as if they are so long people allow them to get away with it by not suing them.  Did you follow the advice to send them a Letter Before Claim and then follow it up?

(FWIW I don't buy anything from Amazon because I don't like how they do business... )

I’ve started proceedings with a small claims court today thank you all for the advice nobody here has said anything Amazon hadn’t which is why I have evidence of every correspondence I even started informing them I was recording there calls just as they were since when I asked for the call records they refused to give me them. http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk is my next step following one final letter affording Amazon to offer a reasonable resolution. 

Manxman_in_exile

Before you "start proceedings" I suggest you go back to Amazon again (as I posted earlier) and point out that despite what they might think, their T&Cs do not necessarily allow them to just discard, lose or destroy other people's property sent to them in error, without compensating the owner of that property.  Try and get that through to their UK chief officer or whatever they're called.

If they still won't budge then you need to consider suing them.  But remember - as I posted earlier - if you do decide to sue them, then whether you win or lose (and any case can be lost) you can wave goodbye to any hopes of buying anything from them ever again.  Amazon are apparently very bad losers - even when they win the case...

If you want to do it properly and maximise your chances of winning, you've got to make sure you get everything* right, from the Letter Before Claim, to drafting the Particulars of Claim, right through to organising your evidence (hopefully you have a comprehensive paper trail of all your emails etc etc).

I don't think there's a board on this site that specifically deals with small claims.  What I suggest you do before "starting proceedings" is to go to somewhere like Consumer Action Group and ask their advice about making a court claim in your situation.  They're very good at guiding people through the claims process and they've helped people get compensation for lost and destroyed property from people like Hermes.  Go to them with the same facts you've given here and ask if they can help you through the process.  

The following link goes to their "General Legal issues" board which seems as good a place to start as any.

General Legal Issues - Consumer Action Group  They're meant to be a self-help forum, so if you go along with your own proposed draft of a Letter Before Claim and draft Particulars of Claim they might be more inclined to give you more help.  [Edit:  Ask in your initial post if it would be helpful if you drafted something yourself].  I'm sure they'd be interested in shining a light on this sort of behaviour from Amazon.

You might also want to try getting a view from Legal Beagles, but I think CAG is perhaps more helpful.  Court Claims and Issues - LegalBeagles Forum

Good luck


*  NB  -  One of the most important things to get right is to make sure you are suing the right Amazon entity - there are many different ones.

Manxman_in_exile

Just to add to my last post before I forget!:

Of course none of what I've just posted takes account of the added complication in your case.  And that is that you still have the computer from Amazon that you meant to return but didn't... 

I don't think you are going to get any refund on that until you get it back to Amazon.  What are you intending to do regarding that?  Are you going to send it back before resolving the "lost" computer, or what?  It's an added difficulty that makes the question of suing Amazon more complicated, and I don't know what the answer is...

You could send it back for a refund, but that would leave you and your wife without both of the computers you have bought until you've been refunded and bought a new one.  Or is it possible that your wife keeps the Amazon one while you sort out the Currys one with Amazon?  But if you do that, who do you go back to (Currys or Amazon) if the one your wife keeps develops a fault?

I can just foresee loads of difficulties...

I think your best bet is still to try to speak to a human being at Amazon who is authorised to make decisions (rather than follow a script) and who can understand what has happened.  And if that goes nowhere, get help from Consumer Action Group about suing to get your money back.

You also need to keep track of your timelines and make sure you don't run out of time for returning stuff.

I hate to say it (again) but this could end up an expensive lesson about checking - and doublechecking - what you return to retailers for a refund.

LaHostessAvecLaMostess

Fentoozler90 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

ramthor said:

Fentoozler90, sorry to hear about your issues with Amazon.

I am the original poster on this thread which I did ask to be deleted after all the hostility received for only asking for advice on a public forum supposedly aimed at helping the consumer. I see you are getting the same treatment as I have been given which is sad but not surprising for me. That's why I never posted anything here since and I never will. This reply is because I got notified on my email about the thread being active again after such long time.

If you are interested to know what happened to the phone that Amazon "discarded" just because they could... well it's still discarded and no compensation was ever given. I returned the non-5G version that I bought from Amazon and issued a full refund and that's it as far as Amazon is concerned. 

If this thread remains visible, then it can act as a warning for other people in the same situation: if you make a mistake in returning something to Amazon, you can say good-bye to it forever. You're never going to see it again.

Bottom line, Amazon is above the law and posting for advice on this forum is a waste of time.

I think if you bothered to read the replies to this thread properly you will see that you were given good advice from the outset.  In the very first reply Aylesbury_duck advised you to make a written complaint to Amazon (if you had not already done so) and that if that did not resolve the matter then you would have to sue them etc etc.  That advice was later repeated by Aylesbury_duck and also by Waamo.  It's basically the same advice that I've given to Fentoozler90 above earlier today, except that I've added that Amazon need to be sued for the tort of conversion where they've deprived somebody of their property.

It's true that some posters (including myself) queried how you could possibly have mistakenly returned your husband's phone to Amazon rather than the one you had just bought from them.  It seemed an unlikely thing to have happened.  You were told at the time that Amazon would also almost certainly challenge your account of what had happened so it would be as well for you to get used to defending your version of events rather than everyone saying how sorry they were for you for making such a mistake.

Amazon aren't above the law but they will continue to act as if they are so long people allow them to get away with it by not suing them.  Did you follow the advice to send them a Letter Before Claim and then follow it up?

(FWIW I don't buy anything from Amazon because I don't like how they do business... )

I’ve started proceedings with a small claims court today thank you all for the advice nobody here has said anything Amazon hadn’t which is why I have evidence of every correspondence I even started informing them I was recording there calls just as they were since when I asked for the call records they refused to give me them. http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk is my next step following one final letter affording Amazon to offer a reasonable resolution. 

In Luxembourg?  Because the legal entity is in Luxembourg, not the UK and the T&C's state that it is under Luxembourgian law, not UK law.

Whilst I appreciate that the glorious nation of Luxembourg may be a nice place to visit, it could be quite expensive to do so for a court case.

Fentoozler90

Manxman_in_exile said:

Just to add to my last post before I forget!:

Of course none of what I've just posted takes account of the added complication in your case.  And that is that you still have the computer from Amazon that you meant to return but didn't... 

I don't think you are going to get any refund on that until you get it back to Amazon.  What are you intending to do regarding that?  Are you going to send it back before resolving the "lost" computer, or what?  It's an added difficulty that makes the question of suing Amazon more complicated, and I don't know what the answer is...

You could send it back for a refund, but that would leave you and your wife without both of the computers you have bought until you've been refunded and bought a new one.  Or is it possible that your wife keeps the Amazon one while you sort out the Currys one with Amazon?  But if you do that, who do you go back to (Currys or Amazon) if the one your wife keeps develops a fault?

I can just foresee loads of difficulties...

I think your best bet is still to try to speak to a human being at Amazon who is authorised to make decisions (rather than follow a script) and who can understand what has happened.  And if that goes nowhere, get help from Consumer Action Group about suing to get your money back.

You also need to keep track of your timelines and make sure you don't run out of time for returning stuff.

I hate to say it (again) but this could end up an expensive lesson about checking - and doublechecking - what you return to retailers for a refund.

I’ve cancelled returning it Id sooner just hold onto it than risk this again since I still have no guarantee the one I returned is in fact the wrong one

littleboo

I would have thought that Amazon have a duty of care to property sent in error, in the same way that if they dispatched the wrong item to a customer, it would be reasonable for you to allow them to collect the item and not bin it straight away.

born_again

LaHostessAvecLaMostess said:

In Luxembourg?  Because the legal entity is in Luxembourg, not the UK and the T&C's state that it is under Luxembourgian law, not UK law.

Whilst I appreciate that the glorious nation of Luxembourg may be a nice place to visit, it could be quite expensive to do so for a court case.

>>>If you are a consumer and have your habitual residence in the EU or the UK, you additionally enjoy the protection afforded to you by mandatory provisions of the law of your country of residence<<

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html

You stated that Amazon UK Services Ltd does not exist in the below thread and have been proved wrong..

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6312978/amazon-to-stop-accepting-visa-credit-cards-from-january-2022-here-s-all-you-need-to-know#latest