First Steps to Solvency

alt80

@getmore4less completely agree think I’m going to have to review the categories on a month by month basis probably until spring. 

Wish the card debts were gone - spare £1k/m to have a bit of a life. Hard at the moment working to the budget I have. Actually managed to end the month having reduced debt though so that’s a win. 

Gone through fleeting thoughts of clearing to around £25k then just stopping for a while, get at least some lifestyle stuff back but with no new debt. However it would be an issue if 0% deals run out and are scarce etc. Catch 22 clear the debt and have little to no life or have a life and keep the debt levels as they are. 

Waiting to hear about a further advance isn’t exactly helping my mindset either. Never going to be entirely free of debt or liability for debt not least for a very long time.

@theoretica it is a waste not only for the reasons stated below by Ryan but he’s 65ish and has never had a life, no stories to tell. For all my dad’s faults gambling etc I do think he can at least look back and say he’s had a life. Tbh I lead a more boring life than my dad did when he was my age and am a saint with money comparatively. You get one life and to spend it being as boring as FIL is an utter waste.

@ryanm8655 yeah he doesn’t see it that way, I had that conversation with him. All I wanted was to use his money rather than expensive bridging finance on small projects up to £100k. Would have literally given it back with some interest when I refinanced but no ‘too risky’ FML. 

ryanm8655

alt80 said:

@getmore4less completely agree think I’m going to have to review the categories on a month by month basis probably until spring. 

Wish the card debts were gone - spare £1k/m to have a bit of a life. Hard at the moment working to the budget I have. Actually managed to end the month having reduced debt though so that’s a win. 

Gone through fleeting thoughts of clearing to around £25k then just stopping for a while, get at least some lifestyle stuff back but with no new debt. However it would be an issue if 0% deals run out and are scarce etc. Catch 22 clear the debt and have little to no life or have a life and keep the debt levels as they are. 

Waiting to hear about a further advance isn’t exactly helping my mindset either. Never going to be entirely free of debt or liability for debt not least for a very long time.

@theoretica it is a waste not only for the reasons stated below by Ryan but he’s 65ish and has never had a life, no stories to tell. For all my dad’s faults gambling etc I do think he can at least look back and say he’s had a life. Tbh I lead a more boring life than my dad did when he was my age and am a saint with money comparatively. You get one life and to spend it being as boring as FIL is an utter waste.

@ryanm8655 yeah he doesn’t see it that way, I had that conversation with him. All I wanted was to use his money rather than expensive bridging finance on small projects up to £100k. Would have literally given it back with some interest when I refinanced but no ‘too risky’ FML. 

I had those same fleeting thoughts, then when I’ve got to those points I’ve just cracked on. Can be a helpful thought to get you through I found. Keep an open mind. Hopefully when you get there you’ll have forgotten about it, got used to things and the mindset and then just carry on clearing it. That’s what happened to me.

theoretica

I find the 'you only get one life' thing unconvincing - especially when people's past selves using that as an argument have got their present selves into less comfortable situations.  Whether financial, or living for decades with injuries.  You only get one life so take care of the rest of it too.  But I think we are quite different people, and I much prefer pleasant consistency rather than a few highs.

ryanm8655

theoretica said:

I find the 'you only get one life' thing unconvincing - especially when people's past selves using that as an argument have got their present selves into less comfortable situations.  Whether financial, or living for decades with injuries.  You only get one life so take care of the rest of it too.  But I think we are quite different people, and I much prefer pleasant consistency rather than a few highs.

Yeah, like everything though I think it’s about balance. But I’d rather be financially secure than bankrupt, that’s for sure ha. But when I retire I’ll certainly be enjoying the fruits of my labour, assuming I have any and it’s still sensible to be efficient with your money rather than leaving it in the bank. My bank account doesn’t even give interest and if you’re earning less than 2.1% interest over the long term then you’re actually losing money in the long run.

Money is no good when you’re dead, need to enjoy life as well. Where do you draw the line? Let’s say you’re in your 70s, have £100k in savings, no mortgage and £2k surplus every month so are continuing to accumulate savings. Do you live a little then?

ladyholly

For many people having money in the bank isn't boring it is security and peace of mind. It isn't up to you to decide what fil does with it.  Have you considered boring is safe? Do you know how he lived as a child and young man. There maybe a reason he is risk averse. You say if he invested with you it would be safe but what he sees is a man struggling with debt and being stressed.  He also may be looking at  a time when he needs care and believe me paying for your own is preferable to what is provided by councils. Not because the staff are worse in general but the amount you get and the home they will provide can be very different. 

alt80

@theoretica I have got a bit of admiration for people who can live without the highs tbh (and inevitable comedowns lol). Still think !!!!!! are you doing with your life though haha. Tbf they do probably have a better mindset / stress levels.

@ryanm8655 Sometimes I’m acutely aware of the risks I choose to take ... possibly more likely to wind up bankrupt at some point rather than financially secure with the way I deal with my finances currently or have in the past. Doesn’t stop me though at least not for long haha. Bigger risks = bigger rewards and bigger loses potentially just a fact of life. Would like to get out of that trap tbh no card debt, one car on finance at a time (yeah still far more extravagant than most on here probably) in personal life and no personal liabilities in business life - seems completely unrealistic to aim for though especially as I’m ready to plough more capital into portfolio growth so save for a large amount of capital appreciation (not likely soon) or ploughing all profits into the current assets rather than for deposits on more I’m stuck with debt/ liability for debt over a very long term if not forever. 

Money is absolutely no good when your dead ... may get to use FILs money to buy an AM though ha chance would be a fine thing - he’s got 4 kids and not that much money to go round. Will probably disinherit wife so I don’t get my hands on his money lol.

alt80

@ladyholly this was ages ago I tried to get into a JV deal with him. Yeah was in debt then too but he didn’t know that then besides personal debt is very different to business. Would have been better all round to get out of the high interest bridging and use his money pay back a little interest and be able to buy cheap projects for cash before refinancing. Win for him, win for me but oh well more money to the banks rather than his pocket lol.

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster

I agree we only live once. I wouldn't want to spend half of it jiggling money around to avoid bankruptcy 😉

Agree with having tales to tell, but that comes from experiences, definitely not from buying stuff.  No one is really interested in that time you bought a watch in credit. But that time you went pumpkin picking and got the right !!!!!! because the car got muddy, you are going to laugh about that one day.

ryanm8655

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster said:

I agree we only live once. I wouldn't want to spend half of it jiggling money around to avoid bankruptcy 😉

Agree with having tales to tell, but that comes from experiences, definitely not from buying stuff.  No one is really interested in that time you bought a watch in credit. But that time you went pumpkin picking and got the right !!!!!! because the car got muddy, you are going to laugh about that one day.

Agree with that.

Jellytotts

I've been reading your diary for the past few days and it's made me angry, sad, confused and grateful, all at the same time.  That being said I really admire you posting so openly about your income/debt levels and your attitudes to spending, it's really eye opening. 

10 years ago, at the age you are now, my husband was a passenger in a car when it was involved in an accident.  The resulting disability that my husband has to live with has changed our lives completely and we went from a decent income to relying on benefits.  We had debt, it was a hideous time.  Trying to put food on the table and service those debts whilst trying to learn how to live with disability was hard and without the support of family and each other we wouldn't have made it.  We lost a lot of "friends" once they realised we couldn't keep up with their spending, once they realised that they'd have to help with wheelchairs and watching me help feed my husband.  Those that stuck around were they real people we wanted and needed in our lives.

We are now in a much better place, you learn to live with what life throws at you when you don't have a choice and you learn to value those that are happy to help you up when you fall.

We live a small life, very small compared to yours and your monthly income is approx 2/3s of what we have in a year.  Despite this our every last penny has been spent wisely over the last few years and we are comfortable, we have a beautiful home with a very small mortgage, we don't owe a single penny on credit/finance/loans and have savings in the bank. Most of all we are happy, happy with life that wasn't as we'd planned, happy that we don't have the financial stress and happy that every moment we get to spend together is really precious, considering the nightmare it could have been.

When you have your "SHTF" moment you'll know what to do and you'll wish you did more sooner. Your lines of credit will dry up, your lifestyle will have to change and you will realise who you can rely on.  Having some humility now in apologising to your FIL and building a better relationship will be a good first step.

This financially crippling time during the pandemic is the ideal time to make big changes without losing face if that's important to you.  More people will admire you for cutting your expenses than they will for carrying on spending money that isn't yours.  

I wish you every success and if I were you I'd go give your wife a big hug. She sounds amazing.