£60 fine for a 4 minute stop Help

MistyZ

Haha, those signs are appalling.  Love the way the bin is parked right below the first one, someone should issue it a PCN.  

Definitely include those photos in the appeal and go to town on them.  Height way above eye-level, small in size, access to the area immediately below the first one is obstructed etc. etc.

jamesmc80

POPLA VERIFICATION CODE XXXX

VEHICLE REGISTRATION XXXX

I, the registered keeper of this vehicle, received a letter dated 00/00/00 acting as a notice to the registered keeper.My appeal to the Operator–ParkWatch–was submitted and acknowledged by the Operator on 00/00/0000 and rejected via an email dated 00/00/0000. I contend that I, as the keeper, am not liable for the alleged parking charge and wish to appeal against it on the following grounds:

1, Consideration and Grace periods – BPA Code of Practice – Non compliance

2, Lack of signage – No signage on entrance to car park at all. Signage is not clear and legible from all parking spaces. There is also insufficient of the sum of the parking charge itself,.

3. No evidence of land owner authority – The operator is put to strict proof o.f full compliance with the BPA code of practice.

1.Grace periods

The BPA code of practice quoted from the the January 2020 edition,

13.1 The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms and Conditions before entering into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable consideration period to leave, before the driver can be bound by your parking contract. The amount of time in these instances will vary dependent on site size and type but it must be a minimum of 5 minutes.

13.2 The reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not apply where a parking event takes place.

13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN. 13.4 Unauthorised motorists will not be entitled to the minimum time period of 5 minutes for a consideration period in spaces designated for specific users e.g Blue Badge holders, pick up/drop off or where parking is prohibited such as hatched areas in front of emergency exits, or on entry and exit ramps etc. 13.5 You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is. 13.6 Neither a consideration period or a grace period are periods of free parking and there is no requirement for you to offer an additional allowance on top of a consideration or grace period.

Upon appealing to the operator the decision to decline the appeal was based on my stop being over the 2 minute 'good will gesture' grace period the operator is offering and not what the BPA code of practice 13.1 states. They have also tried to manipulate clause 13.4 by fabrication by only including half of the clause in their dispute.

Park Watch quote,

Unauthorised motorists will not be entitled to the minimum time period of 5 minutes for a consideration period in spaces'

The full clause of 13.4

13.4 Unauthorised motorists will not be entitled to the minimum time period of 5 minutes for a consideration period in spaces designated for specific users e.g Blue Badge holders, pick up/drop off or where parking is prohibited such as hatched areas in front of emergency exits, or on entry and exit ramps etc.

The vehicle was stopped on the land for a period of 3 minutes 48 seconds (Please see evidence 3 and evidence 4) and this is less than 10 minutes of which is set out in the BPA code of practice sec 13.1. Signage was seen and the vehicle was moved to an alternative parking area. Evidence 3 and 4 both show my vehicle in a regular space in the car park.

No parking event took place as no one left the vehicle. The PCN states parking charge.

The BPA Code of Practice (13.1) clearly states that the driver must have the chance to consider the terms and conditions before entering the 'parking contract' Park Watch have only given 2 minutes grace and not the 5 minutes minimum. I believe Park Watch are not complying with the Code Of Practice.

2.Lack of signage

Upon approach to the parking area there is no entry signs to the parking area and it is only when you have drove onto the land you see the signs pinned to the wall around the inner perimeter wall of the parking area. They are also not legible from the space the vehicle was stopped in and to acknowledge the terms of the parking contract you would have to get out the vehicle and walk up to, to acknowledge.

Please see evidence signage left and evidence signage front. These are the signs visible from the seating point within the vehicle but the text printed on them in not legible from the space the vehicle was stopped in.

The signage is also placed way above eye level making very hard to read when you are at a close enough distance and signage on the parking area was blocked (see evidence pictures)

this is as far as i have got as i am trying to find more relevant appeals to mine as a lot of them seem to have quotes from older versions of the bpa cop.

is it worth me adding that the pcn issued to me only had a time of the issue and no time stamps are visable on the actual 2 photos included on the pcn.

also for no land owner authority so i just need to make out the appeal gave me no info on this and i would like to see evidence that the company has the power to issue fines on the parking area?? 

thanks in advance

KeithP

Coupon-mad said:

Those signs are astonishingly high - they look nine feet up?

Yes, count the brick courses. Each course equals three inches approx.

In the second pic:
Bottom of sign = 8' 6".
Top of sign = 10' 3".

jamesmc80

Is the height of these signs relevant then are they meant to be at a different hight??? I am hoping I have given enough evidence in grace periods for the appeal to win at popla. 

KeithP

jamesmc80 said:

Is the height of these signs relevant then are they meant to be at a different hight??? 

Well the higher off the ground they are, then the bigger the writing needs to be so that they are still legible.

Redx

jamesmc80 said:

Is the height of these signs relevant then are they meant to be at a different hight??? I am hoping I have given enough evidence in grace periods for the appeal to win at popla. 

The sign in the Hollywood hills can be read from some distance away !!

Ask yourself the reasons for why that is

MistyZ

jamesmc80 said:

Upon approach to the parking area there is no entry signs to the parking area and it is only when you have drove onto the land you see the signs pinned to the wall around the inner perimeter wall of the parking area. They are also not legible from the space the vehicle was stopped in and to acknowledge the terms of the parking contract you would have to get out the vehicle and walk up to, to acknowledge.

Please see evidence signage left and evidence signage front. These are the signs visible from the seating point within the vehicle but the text printed on them in not legible from the space the vehicle was stopped in.

The signage is also placed way above eye level making very hard to read when you are at a close enough distance and signage on the parking area was blocked (see evidence pictures)

I would give this section a different header e.g. just 'Signage' or 'Inadequate Signage'.  And would not make any reference to being able to read the signs at all.  Instead, emphasise that there are no signs at all at the entrance to the parking area and, ideally, include a photo that shows that.  Then state that those within the site are few in number,  small in size and situated nearly 9 feet off the ground i.e. way above eye level.  They are therefore very difficult to read either from the vehicle or outside of the vehicle.   Give each photo its own reference so that you can refer to them specifically.  This will allow you, for example, to point out that a bin in front of one sign further impedes reading it and to provide a direct reference to that photo.   

There is a link to a signage section in the Newbies' thread which itemises the standards signage should meet.  Include that before these specific points.  You can then develop your specific points further by referring to those standards and the way in which signage falls short of them. 

jamesmc80

So appeal came back from popla I lost. They stated as I took a telephone call I had entered into a contract as I wasn't going to park. I have now come home to a letter from park watch demaning their 100 pounds and if I ignore it will go up to 170 and court proceedings. What should I do now. Do I offer them nothing or have a shot myself in the foot. I have uploaded the popla assessment but for some reason cannot find it. I will do it again on this thread but any help in the mean time as to what my next steps are I would be ever grateful 

D_P_Dance

Those signs are far too high for a person of limited stature to read imo.  Read this,

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading

fisherjim

They stated as I took a telephone call I hadn't entered into a contract as it was obvious I wasn't going to park.

There I have corrected their mistake for them what a bunch of stupid ignorant Muppets, you are now in wait and see mode with a barrage of stupid debt collector waste paper to follow.