£60 fine for a 4 minute stop Help

jamesmc80

hi there i am new to the forum so I am not sure if I'm in the right place. 

I received a private parking charge notice on 6th August from park watch demeaning I pay £100 reduced to 60 if paid in 14 days. The letter shows 2 pictures of the vehicle I was in stopped at the very edge of the small plot of land and just an entry time of 13.34. I was stopped for 4 minutes to take a telephone call regarding taking time off to attend the funeral of my father in law. I didnt even think that I was causing an obstruction I merely stopped to make the arrangements. I appealled the fine using the internal process and received the appeal back saying the fine is correct. On taking a closer look at the appeal reply I noticed that I had made an error on the appeal reference number and recieved someone else's vehicles details. I managed to contact park watch to inform them of the error and they explained to me it shouldn't of allowed me to input the wrong appeal ref number and to re submit my appeal directly to an inbox of a staff member at park watch and she told me I would receive an outcome in 24hrs. I have received an outcome and they still want 60 pounds within 10 days otherwise it rises to 100 pounds. My question is if I take this to popla am I going to end up paying the higher rate and what are my chances to get this cancelled as 4 minutes to me should not cost £60. Sorry its long winded but any help with this would be much appreciated 🙏 

MistyZ

This post of yours is replicated ad infinitum!  And so is the response: get thee to the Newbies' thread!  You will find a wealth of information there.

Please do not consider paying £60 for a 4 minute stop, let alone £100.  First thing to do is to read up on the process.  And if this really was such a short stop, you have a good chance at POPLA.  But I'm getting ahead of myself, you really need to understand the processes.  The search option here isn't brilliant but trying 'Park Watch POPLA' should find you some very relevant threads.

What happened when you complained to the landowner?  (First step to take, ideally, as you'll see from the Newbies' thread.  But it is not too late.)

Le_Kirk

jamesmc80 said:

hi there i am new to the forum so I am not sure if I'm in the right place. 
I received a private parking charge notice on 6th August from park watch demeaning I pay £100 reduced to 60 if paid in 14 days. The letter shows 2 pictures of the vehicle I was in stopped at the very edge of the small plot of land and just an entry time of 13.34. I was stopped for 4 minutes to take a telephone call regarding taking time off to attend the funeral of my father in law. I didnt even think that I was causing an obstruction I merely stopped to make the arrangements. I appealled the fine using the internal process and received the appeal back saying the fine is correct. On taking a closer look at the appeal reply I noticed that I had made an error on the appeal reference number and recieved someone else's vehicles details. I managed to contact park watch to inform them of the error and they explained to me it shouldn't of shouldn't HAVE allowed me to input the wrong appeal ref number and to re submit my appeal directly to an inbox of a staff member at park watch and she told me I would receive an outcome in 24hrs. I have received an outcome and they still want 60 pounds within 10 days otherwise it rises to 100 pounds. My question is if I take this to popla am I going to end up paying the higher rate and what are my chances to get this cancelled as 4 minutes to me should not cost £60. Sorry its long winded but any help with this would be much appreciated 🙏 

If you have read the NEWBIE sticky (I sincerely hope you did) then you will know that the vast majority of appeals are rejected - how else would they make any money?  What did you put in the appeal, did you reveal yourself as driver?  You can go to POPLA and use all of the arguments listed in the third post of the NEWBIE sticky.  When they rejected your appeal did you receive a POPLA code?
Did they really put shouldn't of or was that your error?

Redx

download and read the BPA CoP , clause 13, regarding grace periods

the pcn wont be for obstruction, its for stopping for 4 minutes on private property

have you inadvertently told Parkwatch who the driver was ? I hope not, but people do blab

D_P_Dance

It is not a fine, it is an invoice from an ex-clamper to compensate them for the alleged harm they suffered when you did what you did. We call it a scam. Pay them not a penny unless a judge so orders it.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs, and in some cases, cancellation. 

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up later this year,

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these companies, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.

jamesmc80

This was the reply I had from park watch following my appeal. My company forwarded my details on to park watch and then I was informed of the ticket 

Good Afternoon 

 

I have taken the time to look into your appeal sent directly to me on the 25th August 2020 and I am now in a position to respond to you as follows:

 

·         The parking charge notice was issued on the grounds of no permit.

·         The area that your vehicle has entered is private land the landowner has authorised Park Watch to manage their land in line with the terms and conditions that are displayed please refer to evidence EV 1 & 2 .  

·         The parking bays are the landowners property and those who have permission to park in these bays are issued with a permit to do so, this land is strictly not for the use of other motorists.

·         As you are not a permit holder you have not been invited to park on this land and therefore no grace period is required to be given, albeit we do have a two minuet grace period that we put into practice before issuing a parking charge notice to allow consideration for the driver to exit their vehicle to read the signage. 

·         I have attached images that we have on our system that shows the time of entry and exit please refer to appendix (a) and evidence Ev 3-5,  the times shown are entry 1:34:22 exit 1:38:05.  In photographic evidence EV 4 your vehicle is stationed directly adjacent to the signage displayed that state the terms and conditions.

·         With regards to the traffic management act 2004 it predominately relates to civil enforcement not private land enforcement, on entering onto private land you enter into a contract with the landowner.

 

Having taken into consideration your grounds of appeal and although I do have empathy for your situation at the time it is not within our remit to accept an appeal on mitigating circumstances and therefore I believe that the parking charge notice was issued correctly.

 

I will request for a new letter regarding the outcome of your appeal to be sent to you as this will have the unique POPLA reference that you will need to make an application should you not agree with the outcome from Park Watch.

 

With regards to the mix up of the parking charge notice references as this was an external human error this will be passed this onto our Data Protection Officer to log accordingly.

 

I noted from our system that the parking charge notice currently stands at a balance of £100.00 however due to the appeal process confusion I have now reduced this back to £60.00 this balance will remain at £60.00 for the next 10 days.

 

I trust that you find my response satisfactory.

 

Regards

jamesmc80

Le_Kirk said:

jamesmc80 said:

hi there i am new to the forum so I am not sure if I'm in the right place. 
I received a private parking charge notice on 6th August from park watch demeaning I pay £100 reduced to 60 if paid in 14 days. The letter shows 2 pictures of the vehicle I was in stopped at the very edge of the small plot of land and just an entry time of 13.34. I was stopped for 4 minutes to take a telephone call regarding taking time off to attend the funeral of my father in law. I didnt even think that I was causing an obstruction I merely stopped to make the arrangements. I appealled the fine using the internal process and received the appeal back saying the fine is correct. On taking a closer look at the appeal reply I noticed that I had made an error on the appeal reference number and recieved someone else's vehicles details. I managed to contact park watch to inform them of the error and they explained to me it shouldn't of shouldn't HAVE allowed me to input the wrong appeal ref number and to re submit my appeal directly to an inbox of a staff member at park watch and she told me I would receive an outcome in 24hrs. I have received an outcome and they still want 60 pounds within 10 days otherwise it rises to 100 pounds. My question is if I take this to popla am I going to end up paying the higher rate and what are my chances to get this cancelled as 4 minutes to me should not cost £60. Sorry its long winded but any help with this would be much appreciated 🙏 

If you have read the NEWBIE sticky (I sincerely hope you did) then you will know that the vast majority of appeals are rejected - how else would they make any money?  What did you put in the appeal, did you reveal yourself as driver?  You can go to POPLA and use all of the arguments listed in the third post of the NEWBIE sticky.  When they rejected your appeal did you receive a POPLA code?
Did they really put shouldn't of or was that your error?

Yeah she told me this during the telephone conversation that all pcn numbers are unique. It just happened i entered 2 of the numbers in the wrong order and that vehicle was in that same car park. I just feel I am being extorted for £60 and if I challenge it I'm going to end up paying £100 it sucks especially as I didnt even leave the vehicle and the engine was still running. 

Redx

so its a company vehicle and you are not the registered keeper ?

did you receive the pcn in your own name ?

if there was no contract to park, the driver did not enter into a contract and that means its forbidding signage

no contract was offered and it seems to me the driver did have the grace period to decide to stay or go, they went

you need to read that newbies thread avout appealing as a keeper who is a hirer or lessee if its a company vehicle , but as you have already appealed and failed , then its the next stage for you , which is a popla appeal

hence another reason why I asked you if you have told parkwatch who the driver was ?

in future, stop on a public road, not a private car park, or you will get more of these, lots more

jamesmc80

Redx said:

download and read the BPA CoP , clause 13, regarding grace periods

the pcn wont be for obstruction, its for stopping for 4 minutes on private property

have you inadvertently told Parkwatch who the driver was ? I hope not, but people do blab

My company told them I was the driver. So yeah thats never a good start. Park watch have told me grace periods don't apply on private land and that as a good will gesture they allow 2 minutes to read the signs.

Redx

your company cannot, repeat CANNOT tell them you were the driver, they were not present and did not witness the incident

all your company can tell them is who was the keeper of the vehicle on the day, the hirer or the lessee, not the driver, they did not see who was driving, so they have assumed it , same as parkwatch have done , unless you told parkwatch by blabbing about who was driving ? (self incrimination ?)

parkwatch have to follow the BPA CoP, not some arbitrary figure of 2 minutes

I did tell you to read the CoP, so here is what it says

clause 13

13 Consideration and Grace Periods

13.1 The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms and Conditions before entering into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable consideration period to leave, before the driver can be bound by your parking contract. The amount of time in these instances will vary dependant on site size and type but it must be a minimum of 5 minutes.

so it says a minimum of 5 minutes , not 2 minutes

jamesmc80

MistyZ said:

This post of yours is replicated ad infinitum!  And so is the response: get thee to the Newbies' thread!  You will find a wealth of information there.

Please do not consider paying £60 for a 4 minute stop, let alone £100.  First thing to do is to read up on the process.  And if this really was such a short stop, you have a good chance at POPLA.  But I'm getting ahead of myself, you really need to understand the processes.  The search option here isn't brilliant but trying 'Park Watch POPLA' should find you some very relevant threads.

What happened when you complained to the landowner?  (First step to take, ideally, as you'll see from the Newbies' thread.  But it is not too late.)

I cant seem to find who owns the land its in the center of Birmingham. I called the business that reside in there but got nothing.