Parking Charge Notice - Do I have grounds to appeal or not? Please help.

IceCool85

Umkomaas said:

Coupon-mad said:

The penny has dropped!  Now make that penny drop in the brain of the POPLA Assessor, with simple words.  They need it, sadly, as POPLA are not good at understanding the POFA.

KeithP said:

IceCool85 said:

In their response to my appeal when they have submitted evidence they have stated in bold that they didn’t use POFA at any point so does the lack of hire docs still matter? 

No of course not.

But PoPLA assessors have been known to assume that POFA applies. Just be aware.

Here's a salutary lesson in just how badly a POPLA assessor can screw up on PoFA and hirer liability. 

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=134700&st=0

Yes, just read the whole thread, that is pretty shocking! If I make it my main focus about the complete lack of hire docs both at the initial parking charge notice stage (not included) and also the fact that they have not been included again in the evidence pack surely that will win the case?

Umkomaas

surely that will win the case?

I admire your confidence. 😊

It should do, but you need to make it the main focus of your appeal and spell it out in words of one syllable, so that even the most intellectually challenged of assessors can understand it ..... and get it right.

..... but you will need to hear the fat lady sing! 

Coupon-mad

And that they have admitted the docs are NON-POFA of course! 

nosferatu1001

As above
Structure this logically
The Operator freely admits they do not use POFA and so the appeal must succeed, as I am the identified hirer only
Even if POPLA decide to ignore the operators admission that they are not claiming the hirer is liable under pOFA, the operator did not comply with POFA at... by not including ... and so the appeal must succeed as I am the identified hirer, who has no liabiltiy
The fac ttheyre not in the evidence pack does not matter because even if they WERE in the evidence pack, you would not be liable. They had ONE CHANCE to get the hire docs out, and they missed it. 

IceCool85

nosferatu1001 said:

As above
Structure this logically
The Operator freely admits they do not use POFA and so the appeal must succeed, as I am the identified hirer only
Even if POPLA decide to ignore the operators admission that they are not claiming the hirer is liable under pOFA, the operator did not comply with POFA at... by not including ... and so the appeal must succeed as I am the identified hirer, who has no liabiltiy
The fac ttheyre not in the evidence pack does not matter because even if they WERE in the evidence pack, you would not be liable. They had ONE CHANCE to get the hire docs out, and they missed it. 

Please can you very helpful folks let me know what you think of the below before I send it off to POPLA .

27th August 2020

Dear POPLA,

In response to the evidence provided by ParkingEye ltd I would like to raise some very important points and again as the hirer I wish to refute these charges and have this PCN cancelled on the following grounds:

The Notice to Hirer does not comply with POFA  - ParkingEye’s own documentation supplied in the evidence pack only confirms this further, as they have admitted to not be following the Protection Of Freedom Act 2012, they mentioned this in bold writing in the documentation supplied in the evidence pack: I quote: “Please be advised, this Parking Charge was not issued under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012”.

Therefore, as the operator has not proven or identified who the driver or hirer is and nor have I provided them with the identity of the driver (nor do I intend to) as mentioned in my initial appeal to POPLA (there wasn’t any hire documents provided with the notice to keeper nor have they been included in the evidence pack either) and not complied with POFA there are no circumstances under any common law where a driver or hirer can be held liable for this penalty charge and therefore, this needs to be cancelled. 

I really hope you can help me to bring closure to this matter.
Kind Regards,

(Insert name here)

KeithP

...there are no circumstances under any common law where a driver or hirer can be held liable for this penalty charge and therefore, this needs to be cancelled. 

That's not right.

The driver can always be liable. It is the keeper, or hirer, that cannot be liable if the POFA is not complied with.

IceCool85

KeithP said:

...there are no circumstances under any common law where a driver or hirer can be held liable for this penalty charge and therefore, this needs to be cancelled. 

That's not right.

The driver can always be liable. It is the keeper, or hirer, that cannot be liable if the POFA is not complied with.

Ok thanks I will just change that to only keeper or hirer then, anything else I need to add, do you think it needs more meat to the bones or ok as is? I will change common law to any law I think as well? 

Coupon-mad

Therefore, as the operator has not proven or identified who the driver or hirer is

No, they know who the hirer is and you are the hirer.  Change it to:

Therefore, given that:

(a) the operator has not proven or identified who the driver is and there is no evidence to identify that person; and
(b) no hire documents accompanied the notice to keeper (the one they sent to me as a NTH) which fails paras 13 & 14 of Schedule 4; and
(c) the operator has admitted to not using POFA documents in this case;

the parking charge must be cancelled.

nosferatu1001

No. I gave you 
TWO
reasons
1) The operator says theyre not using POFA. I am the hirer, so i cannot therefore be liable
2) EVen if POPLA ignores the operators admissions about not using POFA, they didnt comply with POFA because...
Think about it. That gives two different reasons for your appeal to succeed, that the POPLA assessor has to overturn both of. 
Do not reference common law. Just state no law. 

IceCool85

Thank you all once again, is this better?27th August 2020

Dear POPLA,

In response to the evidence pack provided by ParkingEye Ltd I would like to raise some very important points and again I want to reiterate that as the hirer, I wish to refute these charges and have this Parking Charge Notice cancelled on the following grounds:

The Notice to Hirer does not comply with POFA  - ParkingEye’s own documentation supplied in the evidence pack only confirms this further, as they have admitted to not be following the Protection Of Freedom Act 2012, they mentioned this in bold writing in the documentation supplied in the evidence pack: I quote: “Please be advised, this Parking Charge was not issued under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012”.

Therefore, given that:

(a) the operator has not proven or identified who the driver is and there is no evidence to identify that person; and
(b) no hire documents accompanied the notice to keeper (the one they sent to me as a NTH) nor have they been included in the evidence pack which fails paragraphs 13 & 14 of Schedule 4; and
(c) the operator has admitted to not using POFA documents in this case;

The parking charge must be cancelled as under no law can a hirer be held liable for the above reasons.

I really hope you can help me to bring closure to this matter.

Kind Regards,

(Insert name here)