Parking Charge Notice - Do I have grounds to appeal or not? Please help.

IceCool85

Redx said:

you only have 2000 characters for a popla rebuttal, so find all their errors and rebut them in concise paragraphs

no evidence of who was driving

no hire documents included so a POFA fail

timescales if they are a POFA fail

etc

Thank you, that’s really helpful .
Is there a Popla rebuttal template at all that I can amend? They have stated in their evidence that the parking charge notice was NOT issued under POFA, does this make a difference? Thank you. 

IceCool85

KeithP said:

IceCool85 said:

nosferatu1001 said:

It was more - if they can show there was an extra step 80 might be ok
What is always a winner at POPLA is that failing to supply hire docs with the NTH and only with the NTH, not at any point after, is a fail of POFA
Did you directly reference POFA and te elements they failed at? POPLA are useless

Yes, I directly referenced POFA and I mentioned the fact that the PCN didn’t arrive until 80 days after and that they haven’t identified who the driver was or provided any proof/hire documentation. 

And surely you specifically pointed out to PoPLA that the PPC failed to send the hire documentation to you with the Notice to Hirer? That is is a POFA failure too - the most significant failure.

In their response to my appeal when they have submitted evidence they have stated in bold that they didn’t use POFA at any point so does the lack of hire docs still matter? 

Coupon-mad

No. There is no template because it is NOT a rebuttal.   Not a new appeal and not long.

It's case-specific comments IN YOUR OWN WORDS to focus the mind of the Assessor.

They have stated in their evidence that the parking charge notice was NOT issued under POFA, does this make a difference?

No hire documents and it does state that the notices weren’t issued under POFA?

You win then, no idea why you added question marks there!  That's your winning points (and your comments focus) right there! 

Of course it makes a difference, what do you think?  Come on, this is SIMPLE.  You know that a PPC can only hold a hirer/lessee liable if they use the POFA and include hire docs with the NTH they posted out to you.  We do not need to re-state this.  But you do, to POPLA!  How helpful of the PPC to confirm the docs were non-POFA, how lovely!

KeithP

IceCool85 said:

In their response to my appeal when they have submitted evidence they have stated in bold that they didn’t use POFA at any point so does the lack of hire docs still matter? 

No of course not.

But PoPLA assessors have been known to assume that POFA applies. Just be aware.

IceCool85

Coupon-mad said:

No. There is no template because it is NOT a rebuttal.   Not a new appeal and not long.

It's case-specific comments IN YOUR OWN WORDS to focus the mind of the Assessor.

They have stated in their evidence that the parking charge notice was NOT issued under POFA, does this make a difference?

No hire documents and it does state that the notices weren’t issued under POFA?

You win then, no idea why you added question marks there!  That's your winning points (and your comments focus) right there! 

Of course it makes a difference, what do you think?  Come on, this is SIMPLE.  You know that a PPC can only hold a hirer/lessee liable if they use the POFA and include hire docs with the NTH they posted out to you.  We do not need to re-state this.  But you do, to POPLA!  How helpful of the PPC to confirm the docs were non-POFA, how lovely!

That’s fantastic news then . This is what it states word for word on their submitted evidence.. Please be advised, this Parking Charge was not issued under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

Coupon-mad

Fabulous, no idea why you are not jumping round the room and laughing! 

Just point it out to POPLA and remind them no hire docs were attached as per paras 13/14 of Schedule 4 and the PPC admits it!  As the driver has never been identified, and the appellant is merely the hirer/lessee, there can be no scope for hirer liability under any law.

IceCool85

Coupon-mad said:

Fabulous, no idea why you are not jumping round the room and laughing! 

Just point it out to POPLA and remind them no hire docs were attached as per paras 13/14 of Schedule 4 and the PPC admits it!  As the driver has never been identified, and the appellant is merely the hirer/lessee, there can be no scope for hirer liability under any law.

Yes, I’m really pleased . I’m glad I spotted the part where they mention that they didn’t use POFA as they have basically admitted that they are unable to hold a hirer liable as they were unable to follow POFA . Seems like they are clutching at straws! 

Coupon-mad

The penny has dropped!  Now make that penny drop in the brain of the POPLA Assessor, with simple words.  They need it, sadly, as POPLA are not good at understanding the POFA.

Redx

yes there are popla "rebuttals" on here that are less than 2000 characters long, plenty of them, its finding them that is your task, or do your own based on the above replies , its one , or the other , or a combination of both , but dont expect people here to do the searching

you are not the first to make a popla appeal and to reply to the evidence pack, its been done thousands of times before , so a good start is the popla decisions sticky thread and work backwards , or just do your own. its a well trodden path , but keep in mind most wont he hirers

Umkomaas

Coupon-mad said:

The penny has dropped!  Now make that penny drop in the brain of the POPLA Assessor, with simple words.  They need it, sadly, as POPLA are not good at understanding the POFA.

KeithP said:

IceCool85 said:

In their response to my appeal when they have submitted evidence they have stated in bold that they didn’t use POFA at any point so does the lack of hire docs still matter? 

No of course not.

But PoPLA assessors have been known to assume that POFA applies. Just be aware.

Here's a salutary lesson in just how badly a POPLA assessor can screw up on PoFA and hirer liability. 

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=134700&st=0