6 minutes - Never left car - £100 fine

Mickey666

Scrapit said:

Coupon-mad said:

I have plenty of credibility (in lots of circles) but notably the person hasn't denied working for a PPC.

Don't make it worse. Smh.

Quite!  Since when has not denying something been proof of anything?  CM sounds like some sort of idiot conspiracy theorist with that sort of approach.  Try to be a little kinder to those with less 'credibility (in lots of circles)', instead of lashing out like the big 'I am'.

For the record I do not and never have worked for a PPC.

I'll also freely admit not to being an expert in how to contest these sorts of claims, which is why I have offered no advice in that respect  (though many years ago I went through a parking tribunal with Westminster Council for a wrongly issued parking ticket and won).

All I pointed out was that one way to avoid the stress and worry about being scammed in these private car parks is to simply buy a ticket.  Is that not true?  A couple of quid 'insurance' against weeks/months of worry, stress, letter writing, waiting, possible court appearance, etc.  Yes, you'll probably win, but what a pyhrric victory it will be.

Redx

It may be true or not true

Depends if the vehicle was in a pay and display car park with a working ticket machine available

Barry Beavis could not buy a ticket , it wasn't a pay and display car park , so no it's not true in cases like his

Even in a pay and display car park and buying a valid ticket for the stay other factors can cause a PCN to be issued , faulty machines , VRM entry errors , in the wrong bay , poor markings , poor signage , wheel on a line , parking on the end of a row , overstays , grace periods , a slipped ticket that isn't fit for purpose , not displaying a blue badge , expired blue badge , all sorts of issues that cause a PCN to be raised on the vehicle

Some sites have multiple operators and a ticket can be bought from the wrong machine for various reasons , like where machines are co located due to power requirements. One near me in Hyde has 3 sections , 2 are pay and display for SIP and the council , the third is CEL for a KFC and is limited to 90 minutes free with validation in KFC , so no payment allowed or required

It's not as clear cut as you make out

Mickey666

Redx said:

It may be true or not true

But when it is true, then paying for a ticket is a lot less hassle than gambling on not being spotted or relying on grace periods.  That's all I was suggesting.

Redx said:

It's not as clear cut as you make out

I accept it might not ALWAYS be clear, though I've never found these things confusing.

I'm under no illusion about parking scams.  As I previously mentioned I was once ticket by Westminster Council while parked on a single yellow line on a sunday afternoon underneath a sign stating 'no parking Mon-Fri x to y and Saturday xx to yy' (I don't recall the exact times but crucially there was no restriction on Sunday.  When I returned to my car, there was a police car parked nearby so I showed them the ticket and asked if I was parked wrongly.  They confirmed I was parked perfectly legally and one of the officers gave me his name and number in case I needed a witness.

I wrote to Westminster Council, with photos, explaining the mistake but was fobbed off with a form letter.  I wrote again, explaining that I had a police witness, but was again fobbed off and told to take the matter to the Parking Tribunal.  So I did.  It took the tribunal longer to read the letters and check the photos than it did to decide to cancel the ticket.  Nobody from Westminster turned up.

I can only guess that the parking warden was on some sort of commission for the tickets issued, so they just issue as many as they can (the whole street of cars had been wrongly ticketed), and the council don't care a hoot about the tribunals because it costs them nothing whatever the result and, of course, I could not even claim for my train fare into London for the hearing, never mind any compensation for my time.  The whole system is rigged against the motorist.

So yes, I'm fully supportive of hitting back against these scammers, but I prefer to avoid becoming a victim in the first place.  Once you are caught, you've already lost in terms of stress, time, worry etc - as these repetitive threads prove time and again.

Redx

What you fought was a council PCN , a penalty , not civil contract law , nothing like the incident in this thread , plus councils give ten minutes observation time (grace period) before issuing a ticket , this thread is about a six minute time , so less than the standard ten minutes that is common , hence some of the replies in this thread

There are many sc@m tickets issued every year , some 8 million are issued by private companies and many are dubious and not clear cut , here is another one , one of many issued due to covid instructions issued by the government

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6173916/overstayed-sainsbury-s-euro-car-park-response-from-ceo-great-result#latest

There are times when I believe a driver is bang to rights and will lose , and I will tell them this

There are many sc@m sites in Greater Manchester alone , so I will assist them , like this ukcps sc@m site on what appears to be a layby on a public road , not a car park , so no pay and display machines and no paid for tickets on offer

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6117354/ukcps-piccadilly-station-gateway-house-appeal-success

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6071461/ukcps-no-stopping-parking-charge/p1

There are many airport ones on here including where people have stopped at a zebra crossing to let people cross the private road , no car park involved , no pay and display ticket machines either

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6055691/pcn-for-stopping-at-zebra-crossing#latest

Sometimes it takes a judge to see the issues involved and to find in favour of a Defendant , especially on sc@m sites like the one below , which beggars belief

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6126609/excel-claim-defence-advice/p1

Council PCN,s and car parks are regulated , the private parking industry is not regulated , and non regulation sees bad practices and no common standards , hence the Mhclg changes that will come eventually once the BSI CoP is implemented

Mickey666

Redx said:

What you fought was a council PCN , a penalty , not civil contract law ,

Yes, I understand that.  My point was that even councils can behave in a totally unreasonable manner, even when presented with undisputable evidence of THEIR warden's clear mistake.  I'd half expect a private parking outfit to act cynically, but for a government organisation to be able to do so, and with complete impunity, really is outrageous.

Fruitcake

In fairness to the OP, this thread is being taken off topic so will posters please stop tangent discussions and start another thread about it if they wish to discuss the matter further.

Coupon-mad

Mickey666 said:

  My point was that even councils can behave in a totally unreasonable manner, even when presented with undisputable evidence of THEIR warden's clear mistake.  I'd half expect a private parking outfit to act cynically, but for a government organisation to be able to do so, and with complete impunity, really is outrageous.

I agree with you on all of the above.  Your case was an example of a wrongly-issued Council PCN and they are quite common, sadly.  That's what pepipoo forum is for - appealing and winning v Council PCNs.

The thing is with private PCNs ... around 95% of the time in my experience, they are not typically issued for not paying & displaying.  They are issued for scam reasons.  It's as bad as clamping used to be, only instead, it's rogue ticketing.  So, coming here and saying 'why didn't you pay?' to someone who was just turning round, or asking directions, or unloading/loading, or picking up a passenger on a a badly-signed road (or whatever the facts of the case) is never the answer on this forum!