UKCPS Piccadilly Station Gateway House - Appeal Success?

jonnymc4

Hi All,

I've been lurking for a while on here checking through your posts on Gateway House UKCPS at Piccadilly Station, Manchester on the no stopping parking fines. Really appreciate all the work and effort that goes into this. Apologies if this is posted incorrectly or have incorrectly started my own thread, I haven't seen anything relating to my post.

I was issued a fine by post on 03 February 2020. I appealed the fine within the 21 day period from the date in which the letter was issued, on 20 February 2020 at 15:54. Thus far, I have not received a response to my appeal as to whether I have been successul or not. It is now 28 days 1h 24m since the appeal was submitted.

In the 28 day appeal response I have been in contact with my local MP and MP for Manchester. I have had responses from both MPs stating that they have either appealed on my behalf, and in the case of MP for Manchester, Lucy Powell has been in contact with UKCPS within the last month or so as a few people have been in contact with her. I've attached the letters received at the bottom. 

The letter that I received states, "If you do appeal and do not hear from us within 28 days then please contact us, do not assume that your appeal has been successful". My question is, should I do this or is it a way of getting my phone number?

For anyone interested, I was not parked on the "roadway" as the signage states a fine is liable. I was parked in an unmarked space to the side of a solid white line. My letter states (with attachments that I posted):

RE PCN number [it was inserted here]

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

- The roadway in which you allege the incident occurred is clearly demarked by a solid white line to each side of the roadway, and the lanes divided by a dashed white line, and does not have clearly defined raised kerbs (refer to Photo 1). Refer the text contained within the document published by Department for Transport, Department for Infrastructure (Northern Ireland), Scottish Government and Welsh Government, named ‘Traffic Signs Manual’, Chapter 5, Road Markings as to the definition of the edge of a roadway (carriageway). Diagram 1012.1 referred in the text below is attached in Extract 1. Further justification into the definition of a roadway (carriageway) is provided in Extract 2.

 

2.5.6.Diagram 1012.1 is intended for general use to delineate the edge of carriageway, particularly on unlit classified roads and those not having clearly defined raised kerbs. It should also normally be used on all‑purpose roads with hard shoulders or hard strips, on motorways (including the back edge of actively managed hard shoulders on smart motorways), unless profiled edge lines are used (see 2.6), and to delineate footways at level crossings (see Chapter6).

- In reference to the above text and Extract 1 and 2, the position in which the alleged incident occurred was done so outside of the defined carriageway and therefore not liable to the parking charge as implied. The parking charge states, “STRICTLY NO STOPPING ON ROADWAYS OR DOUBLE YELLOW LINES ”. Neither of these statements were contravened.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,

I'd be grateful for any feedback.

Jonny

Fruitcake

I see no advantage in contacting the scammers. The NEWBIES is quite clear. Once you have appealed to an IPC scammer, you should ignore anything and everything afterwards except real court papers.
It is not a fine.
It is not cancelled unless the scammers or a judge tells you it is cancelled. 
Never, ever 'phone a parking scammer, or any other type of scammer for that matter.
The scammers are not going to get your 'phone number unless you are daft enough to tell them.

You have sent a keeper appeal yet have repeatedly identified the driver in your post. You should edit it to remove that information and only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper.
This is especially important because the scammers have admitted the NTK is non-PoFA compliant.

There is a thread about this location by a poster called MissBizitta and is essential reading.

Since the private parking scamdustry is unregulated, traffic orders, highway code etcetera are irrelevant unless you can persuade a judge that they are.

KeithP

This is the thread that Fruitcake mentioned:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6071461/ukcps-no-stopping-parking-charge

MissBizzita is the poster.

Fruitcake

Other things to note. 

The sign says "Charge Notice" not parking charge notice. This is a deliberate ploy to enable the scammers to claim charges for stopping as opposed to parking.
This is against the DVLA KADOE Contract requirements where scammers can obtain keeper details for parking issues. A complaint should be made to the DVLA as a result.

The signage is forbidding so cannot form a contract. There is no service offered (no consideration). 

The scammers said in their letter to the MP that they are assuming the driver was the keeper. There can be no such assumption in law. This should be pointed out to the MP in question.

The other MP, Chris Green, has incorrectly referred to UKPC at one point. It would be worth pointing out that this is a completely different parking scammer that achieved notoriety when it was caught doctoring time stamps on its photo' evidence, yet is still allowed to obtain keeper details from the DVLA.
He does appear to be on your side so you could ask him how you can have your say with regard to the new Parking Bill mandatory Code of Practice since you are one of the people who are most affected by this unregulated industry.

D_P_Dance

Read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6116701/let-us-ignore-all-pcns-not-for-milquetoasts#latest