Deleted

ripplyuk

onwards&upwards said:

ripplyuk said:

onwards&upwards said:

Black_Saturn said:

It is all so difficult. There are days when the threat of suicide seems very, very, real. Other days it feels as if it is nothing more than an emotional ploy, especially when I have raised the topic of moving out, or walking away. I could not bear it if I was responsible for that, though.

People who threaten suicide rarely do it.  People who are genuinely suicidal don't tend to use it that way. 

This is not true at all. It’s a myth, and a very dangerous one. So many lives have been lost because of this. The majority of those who die through suicide have told someone of their intentions, often many times. Those who threaten suicide, often go through with it eventually. 

https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/if-youre-worried-about-someone-else/myths-about-suicide/

"Myth: People who talk about suicide aren't serious and won't go through with it."

Right, that is a myth.  However that's not what I said.  I said people who threaten suicide.  Those who use the threat of it as a tool to manipulate and control others.  Talking about suicide is not the same as using it as a threat. 

  @onwards&upwardsLike I said, those who threaten suicide, often go through with it. 

I’m in a number of suicide bereavement support groups and there are many people there who were in exactly the same position as the OP, with a family member/friend who would regularly threaten to kill themselves, often in a clearly manipulative way ie; if they didn’t get what they wanted. All of them took their own lives eventually. In many cases, this was after a number of ‘pseudo’ suicide attempts using non-lethal methods. 

Please don’t perpetuate the myth that those who use suicide as a threat will not do it. They very often do. 

OldishWench

Black_Saturn said:

My biggest fear is that the suicide threat will become a reality. I do not know how I would cope with that.

Financially, it may well be difficult. I suspect the hardest part would be the guilt, that somehow it was your fault. But that is not true. The only person responsible for your husband's actions is him. Whatever is going on, whatever other people were or were not doing for him or to him. Never forget that. 

OldishWench

Look up Stockholm Syndrome. It may not apply to you, but it certainly has in some of my past relationships, where I felt stuck with the person but didn't mind because I loved them so much, despite the trouble they brought my way. Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG) are very powerful tools.

Mojisola

Black_Saturn said:

Guilt does play a part; that I may end up saying - or doing - something, which pushes him over the edge. There are days where he struggles, and I try to be sympathetic, but it is of no use. It would break my heart if he did bring about an end to his life, as I love him so very much. I just wish he could see that.

And yet he doesn't feel guilty about making your life so difficult and doesn't love you enough to make changes.

ripplyuk

OP, I really think it would help you to seek out some counselling for yourself. Privately if possible, as the NHS waiting lists are generally horrendous. You sound totally worn out with this and I worry things may never change unless you have someone who can help you see this situation a bit more objectively. You are not responsible for your partner. You’re not responsible for his happiness. But I think we could all keep repeating that to the end of time and it would still be very difficult for you to ‘feel’ it. 

I do have sympathy for your partner. Not everyone with depression fits the stereotype of being ‘sad’, tearful and begging for help. For some, it makes them obnoxious; angry, irritable, bitter, twisted and manipulative. They often don’t seek help as they feel that no one can can help them (that’s if there is any help available to start with). I chat to someone online who is in a very similar position to you (his wife has depression) and it’s hard not to get annoyed seeing how she will constantly criticise and pick petty fights over anything at all. It’s just like you say, that you end up feeling you can do nothing right and are constantly walking on eggshells. In his case, this has now been going on for years. I don’t want you to end up like that. It makes neither partner happy. 

tootiemac

Black_Saturn said:

This is so hard. I am not an uncaring person, but am slowly being pushed to my limits living under a dark cloud of depression, and paranoia, and mood swings, and apathy, and threats of suicide. It is driving me to despair, with nowhere to turn. 

I am accused of being unsympathetic, of not understanding the turmoil, nor how difficult it is to cope with everyday life. The threats of suicide leave me on edge, wondering if this is the day it is going to happen. I am constantly biting my tongue, and walking on eggshells. Leaving is not an option, so I do not know what to do. 

I considered contacting the crisis team the other day, as my concerns were heightened, but the suggestion did not go down too well. I try to make other suggestions, but they are not well-received either. It doesn’t seem to matter what I say, I have become the enemy, even though I try so hard to keep everything calm, and love with all my heart. Yet, on other days, everything is okay; the atmosphere is light, and jovial, and I am thankful for that, but it doesn’t seem to last, and then we are living under a cloud once again, with arguments, and accusations, and non-communication, and it is wearing me down.

There isn’t anything anyone can do, but just writing down my thoughts, perhaps I am talking to someone, maybe someone who has experienced the same sort of thing. Someone who has come out of the tunnel at the other side. This is what I am hopeful for, that this is a small blip and will get easier in time.

Dear @ Black Saturn, (I haven't read the full thread yet but I will once I have wrote this)
I feel the upmost respect for you when you say you cannot leave, but you can.
As someone who has just celebrated (yes that seems nasty but its true) 2 years of leaving an identical relationship I can guarantee you you can do it.
I remember the day I finally made the decision to leave, I had been on here (under a different name) and talking just like you are doing. It helped me so much to have people outside of my circle listen and hear me, without the worry that it would get back to him or influence the situation in some way.
i started moving the important documents out to a safe place and then just went on living until it happened but my mind was made up, it was either leave or lose myself to the illness as well, I chose me.
The best advice anyone ever gave me was that the "BIG" event I kept waiting on happening would happen and I would forgive him, that it would be something small he did that would end it all. 
He used his illness as a weapon, he used it to control situations and me to the extent where I lost myself along the way.
It was never his fault it was the illness but it was always my fault.
No he never hit me but the mental abuse I suffered, because that's what is it, was scarring enough.
They call it coercive behavior, because he will use threats like suicide to control you.
He will blame you for things to degrade you and make you feel bad, simple things like going shopping with the girls will become you not wanting to spend time with him, you offer to get him help will be you making it worse and you trying to stay calm is you not caring.
He'll make it all your fault, it is NOT.
When i think back I remember the feelings sooo well, the twisting of the stomach when you wake up, was it going to be a good day or a bad day.
The dread of answering the phone to him when you aren't sure what your answering to.
The eggshells you walk on anytime you have to have a difficult conversation, even if its just asking him to help you with the washing or the food shopping or trying to explain why he cannot just buy £400 electric drums out of the blue (maybe just me).
The small event happened and I made the decision it was time, this was it. I packed a bag of clothes, I made sure someone was watching over him (his dad) and I left I needed the space to breathe so I went to my parents and blocked his number for 3 days.
When I final did speak to him I explained I couldn't do it anymore, I couldn't live like that.
Do you know what he said to me when i said that the main thing that kept me there for so long was that I was afraid he'd kill himself....... "He'd never do that"....... 12 years of worrying at an increasing level and "he'd never do that" was all he could say.

Sorry I've warbled on and I'm off to read the rest of your thread, but if you need to talk just PM no two situations are the same but we call all support each other. I'll post again once i have read everything.
Love to you!!!

onwards&upwards

ripplyuk said:

onwards&upwards said:

ripplyuk said:

onwards&upwards said:

Black_Saturn said:

It is all so difficult. There are days when the threat of suicide seems very, very, real. Other days it feels as if it is nothing more than an emotional ploy, especially when I have raised the topic of moving out, or walking away. I could not bear it if I was responsible for that, though.

People who threaten suicide rarely do it.  People who are genuinely suicidal don't tend to use it that way. 

This is not true at all. It’s a myth, and a very dangerous one. So many lives have been lost because of this. The majority of those who die through suicide have told someone of their intentions, often many times. Those who threaten suicide, often go through with it eventually. 

https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/if-youre-worried-about-someone-else/myths-about-suicide/

"Myth: People who talk about suicide aren't serious and won't go through with it."

Right, that is a myth.  However that's not what I said.  I said people who threaten suicide.  Those who use the threat of it as a tool to manipulate and control others.  Talking about suicide is not the same as using it as a threat. 

  @onwards&upwardsLike I said, those who threaten suicide, often go through with it. 

I’m in a number of suicide bereavement support groups and there are many people there who were in exactly the same position as the OP, with a family member/friend who would regularly threaten to kill themselves, often in a clearly manipulative way ie; if they didn’t get what they wanted. All of them took their own lives eventually. In many cases, this was after a number of ‘pseudo’ suicide attempts using non-lethal methods. 

Please don’t perpetuate the myth that those who use suicide as a threat will not do it. They very often do. 

Ok, so here’s my question, why should that affect what the OP does to protect herself and her children? 

ripplyuk

onwards&upwards said:

ripplyuk said:

onwards&upwards said:

ripplyuk said:

onwards&upwards said:

Black_Saturn said:

It is all so difficult. There are days when the threat of suicide seems very, very, real. Other days it feels as if it is nothing more than an emotional ploy, especially when I have raised the topic of moving out, or walking away. I could not bear it if I was responsible for that, though.

People who threaten suicide rarely do it.  People who are genuinely suicidal don't tend to use it that way. 

This is not true at all. It’s a myth, and a very dangerous one. So many lives have been lost because of this. The majority of those who die through suicide have told someone of their intentions, often many times. Those who threaten suicide, often go through with it eventually. 

https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/if-youre-worried-about-someone-else/myths-about-suicide/

"Myth: People who talk about suicide aren't serious and won't go through with it."

Right, that is a myth.  However that's not what I said.  I said people who threaten suicide.  Those who use the threat of it as a tool to manipulate and control others.  Talking about suicide is not the same as using it as a threat. 

  @onwards&upwardsLike I said, those who threaten suicide, often go through with it. 

I’m in a number of suicide bereavement support groups and there are many people there who were in exactly the same position as the OP, with a family member/friend who would regularly threaten to kill themselves, often in a clearly manipulative way ie; if they didn’t get what they wanted. All of them took their own lives eventually. In many cases, this was after a number of ‘pseudo’ suicide attempts using non-lethal methods. 

Please don’t perpetuate the myth that those who use suicide as a threat will not do it. They very often do. 

Ok, so here’s my question, why should that affect what the OP does to protect herself and her children? 

It shouldn’t. Not in any way. But that’s a completely separate issue. I never said it should affect what the OP does. I was making it clear that saying those who threaten suicide never do it, is untrue. 

OldishWench

tootiemac said:

....I chose me. The best advice anyone ever gave me was that the "BIG" event I kept waiting on happening would happen and I would forgive him, that it would be something small he did that would end it all......

The best thing you can do now, Black_Saturn, is to keep asking questions, keep learning. Knowledge is the turning point. Once your head has had the time to take it all in and make the necessary adjustments to your thinking, your attitude will start to change . I can't praise counselling enough. I went to Relate, it was around £40 per one hour session, I went for around 12 weeks, then the counseller sacked me, as she thought I'd made enough progress. It was the best £480 I've ever spent. It got my faulty thinking right, and stopped me feeling so responsible for everyone. I realised that I was trying to 'make' my family member feel better by managing my every word and behaviour. But who was trying to make me feel better? No-one. Letting go of the need to control someone else's emotions was very freeing. (If you try counselling, you may find the first one or two sessions pointless, or even painful. But stick with it - OH MY WORD - it was worth every minute and every penny.) For me, the end came after a BIG event, that they later claimed was no such thing, It was only a tiny thing and I was over-reacting, etc. That was after many, many tiny things over the years that I just put up with. That was when I realised that I was actually enabling my ex. And the fact that he not only minimised what he had done (I was there when he did it so I know what happened), but also minimised my reaction to it, showed me that he was never going to take responsibility for his own emotions and actions. Take your time, ask questions, tell us whatever you want. One day you will decide you've had enough. Or you won't. But at least you will have learned that the things your husband says and does are NOT your fault. Whatever he says.

OldishWench

Mojisola said:

Black_Saturn said:

Guilt does play a part; that I may end up saying - or doing - something, which pushes him over the edge. There are days where he struggles, and I try to be sympathetic, but it is of no use. It would break my heart if he did bring about an end to his life, as I love him so very much. I just wish he could see that.

And yet he doesn't feel guilty about making your life so difficult and doesn't love you enough to make changes.

This. THIS. THIS!!!! My older male friend whose advice I asked said this. It was a massive wake-up moment!