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elsien

If the person has days when they are better able to have a conversation, perhaps that would be the time to agree how to respond on the bad days. Or to explain how it makes you feel because that is equally as valid. 

It is potentially being taken out on you because you are the "safe" person, the one who they know will put up with it and continue trying to help. But you can only do that up to a point because your own well-being is equally important. Depression is a "selfish" illess. It can prevent people from being able to consider the impact that they are having on those close to them. But you can't fix them and it's not your job to do that, nor to put up with everything that they throw at you; it's still a two way street. 
So who else does the person have in their life who can share the load? Professional services? Other family members? Anyone else he can talk to who can also say - this far and no further?
Otherwise you run the risk of both of you normalising a situation which actually isn't ok for you. And shouldn't have to be. If you are genuinely concerned then contact the crisis team anyway. They may not be able to fully discuss the person without your consent but it still flags up there is an issue and may prompt with further assessment if felt to be needed. 
He still has a responsibility towards his own recovery and saying no to everything is just going to make him worse. (Speaking as someone who had a period of stress related depression which ended up with having to leave my job, so that's not an unsympathetic as it might sound.)

NeilCr

OldishWench said:

Black_Saturn said:

There is no physical violence in the home.

I can relate to the mothering, OldishWench, as that is how it feels at times, and in itself, is exhausting. I shouldn’t be in the position of telling another adult they need to bathe because of excessive body odour, or that they need to put their clothes in the wash, rather than constantly wearing them to the point they smell so bad.

Today, is a day of treading carefully. Mood is low, so I am doing my best to keep everything calm.

No, you shouldn't be in the position where you have to tell an adult to bathe and change. How about stopping? and if they smell, tell them they need to leave the room because they smell. And sleep elsewhere because the stench makes you gag.

Black_Saturn said:

I am accused of being unsympathetic, of not understanding the turmoil, nor how difficult it is to cope with everyday life. The threats of suicide leave me on edge, wondering if this is the day it is going to happen. I am constantly biting my tongue, and walking on eggshells.

This. This is abusive. Accusations, nasty words, suicide threats, causing you to walk on eggshells. This is trying to get you back in line and do as you're told. It's hard to see when you're in the middle of it. My ex would move his mail from where I left it on the stairs, then get all upset when he couldn't find it. One day I lost patience and shouted at him that it was his mail, he moved it and it wasn't my problem. He was very well behaved for a while after that. It surprising how turning the tables on a person behaving badly can bring about a change in attitude, however briefly.

I'd agree about a change in attitude. Looking back I should have been firmer, earlier. I had to deal with tantrums and tears - she could cry for ages. I just wanted these to stop so tended to give in - as you say it's much harder when you are in it. Think I'd have been better to walk out the front door and come back in a hour or so

OldishWench

Black_Saturn said:

Thank you all, for your advice. I am reading everything, and taking it in.

Approaching the issues on good days: quite often, it turns them bad. I am accused of coming at him when he isn’t expecting it. That I have made the day bad for bringing up the past, no matter how early or far into the past the incident occurred, or that I am being dramatic. I am accused of taking sides when other family members have been involved in the drama, or negativity. Having previously spoken to a family member about the situation, I am no longer trusted, for discussing information which was not mine to discuss, so it is better to say nothing to anyone else who is close to us.

Another tool in the abusive person's toolbox - "prevent your target from ever discussing the issues with you, and especially with anyone else. And if they do discuss it with someone else, put that person down and prevent your target access to that person because you don't want them waking up and realising what you're doing."

This really is stuff that is yours to discuss, with whoever you choose. It's affecting your daily life, and taking up all your time, energy and thoughts. But they won't like it, because then you will get people showing you that this behaviour is abusive and wrong, that the person you're talking about is taking advantage of your good nature. And they like things just as they are.

Your partner may be suffering from clinical depression, which is awful for them. But I'm sure they would feel a lot better if they took better care of themselves and took their medication. But then maybe you would expect them to behave like a person who is feeling better and do their bit.

On the other hand they may be 'depressed' because it means they don't have to do any of the heavy lifting in your relationship and can let you do it all, so they can sit around and watch TV or read all day and not even bother to wash. And then blame you for it, so you work even harder to try to make them feel better, and around you go. It's exhausting.

And of course depression and abusiveness aren't mutually exclusive - he could be both. It's still wrong to behave that way. A close family member of mine was clinically depressed for over two years. They still washed themselves, cooked and did housework, as well as going to work when they were able to.

For me, the turning point was a few behaviours that made even me (a congenital fixer and enabler) raise my eyebrows. The next step was to start asking others what they thought. I asked an older male friend whose opinion I respected and valued, and who knew the situation well whether he thought that all the issues were from trauma, choice or both. He looked me in the eye and said 'both, but mostly choice'. That really opened my eyes. There was no way to unsee it after that.

OldishWench

Black_Saturn said:

If we argue and I am strong, then sometimes - for a few days at least - there is an improvement, but it doesn’t last, and then we are back to where we are.

That seals it, in my experience. I'm sorry to say it, but I can't not see abuse here. That's exactly what led me to divorce my first husband 20 years ago. I was tired of having to blow up every 2-3 weeks to get him to stop doing it and go back to a normal relationship for a few days - until the cycle started over. Life was too short to constantly manage another adult's behaviour. One good yardstick, when you start to ask if it's you that's in the wrong - I use it all the time. Ask someone who you know and trust whether it's you. And really listen to the answer. For years I believed that I was in the wrong, that I was the bad person, until people told me that I'm the one with lots of friends who like me, and who are happy to pull me up if I behave badly. My ex had no friends. The recent one, nor the ex husband. Now I know why.

TBagpuss

I am so sorry that you are dealing with all of this .

I agree with other posters - you need to start thinking about your own needs, and those of your children, and the effect that this is having on them. 
Your partner is ill, and that is horrible for them, but it doesn't give them the right to abuse you, or to expect you to manage their health and emotions for them. 
What you can do:

• Try to raise your concerns at a time when they are well and able to listen, this could include telling them next time they have a 'good' day that there are things the two of you need to talk about, and giving them a couple of options about when you have that conversation.
• Encourage them to use other support networks - their GP, their Support Worker if they have one, online or telephone support (including the Samaritans if necessary) 
• Build and use your own support networks - whether that is trusted friends, your own family, online groups, your GP etc, so that you have people you can talk to when you need it. Build in some 'me time' when you aren't available for your partner, so you can recharge your batteries a bit (I know this is hard under lockdown, but try - even if it's just taking an hour for a long bath, or spending 30 minutes in the park on your way home from shopping so you can unwind a bit)
• Decide what you can and can't do to support him, including deciding whether this relationship is right for you. Assume for the purpose of making the decision that his behavior is not going to change. 
• If you decide that you are ending the relationship, remind yourself that you are not responsible for his choices, including any choice he may make to harm himself. That said, if it will help YOU, then do what you can to reduce the risk - this might include speaking to his family or friends to let them know that he may be struggling and may need their help, or it may mean that you call 999 if he claims to have taken and overdoes or if he threatens to harm himself. He can then be professionally assessed.

I think the 'those who threaten suicide never do it' line of argument is dangerous, I think the safer route to take is to take any threats seriously but recognise that it is not your fault, or your responsibility. So if he makes those threats, call an ambulance, call his family, but don't change your own decision. 

I also agree with those saying that the children will be affected - they are learning by observation how relationships work, and at present, sadly, yours seems to be very dysfunctional - that isn't a healthy example to be giving them - people often talk about staying together for the sake of the children but it can be much healthier and more beneficial to think about living apart for the benefit of the children, so that they can get out of an unhealthy atmosphere and learn about healthy boundaries and relationships. 
Good luck. 

ripplyuk

onwards&upwards said:

Black_Saturn said:

It is all so difficult. There are days when the threat of suicide seems very, very, real. Other days it feels as if it is nothing more than an emotional ploy, especially when I have raised the topic of moving out, or walking away. I could not bear it if I was responsible for that, though.

People who threaten suicide rarely do it.  People who are genuinely suicidal don't tend to use it that way. 

This is not true at all. It’s a myth, and a very dangerous one. So many lives have been lost because of this. The majority of those who die through suicide have told someone of their intentions, often many times. Those who threaten suicide, often go through with it eventually. 

https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/if-youre-worried-about-someone-else/myths-about-suicide/

https://crisiscentre.bc.ca/frequently-asked-questions-about-suicide/

https://www.helpguide.org/articles/suicide-prevention/suicide-prevention.htm

OP, you are not responsible for your partner’s actions and you need to take care of yourself first. This link might help: 

http://iceproject.co.uk/living-with-threats-of-suicide/

Hedghog

Hey Black_Saturn
I’m very sorry to hear that you have been through so much even though it is no fault of your own. 

I am going to say this as a person who has been through (and still am) a sufferer of depression. I was once where your partner currently is...

You need to stop ‘trying’ to help. For both your sakes. I was once the unwitting manipulator. Couldn’t accept my problems were my own and accused everyone else of being uncaring etc. 

It wasn’t until the break down of my relationship (completely unrelated to the depression, and in fact his infidelity, most likely down to his not coping with my moods) that I realised that I needed help. I then contacted someone to talk to. Have spoken to the samaritans and am also now seeing/speaking to an independent therapist. It has done me the world of good and I can see things in a new perspective. 

On that note, I agree with what others have said about leaving. Even if it is temporary. Sometimes a short sharp shock is what is needed to wake up and realise help is needed. Your presence in someway, even though unintentional, may actually be clouding and potentially stopping your partner’s ability and willing to change. They see you as the scapegoat, an excuse not to look in the mirror. It is all too easy to blame someone else whilst ever they are willing to let you. 

I wish you all the best and hope you can both beat this whether it is together or separately. 

S x

Fireflyaway

There is a lot of good advice being given. I can identify that it really doesn't matter what you say or how. If your husband is in a low mood he may well find you irritating and be very short tempered with you no matter how nice you are being. I'd probably advise, the less you say the better because he clearly isn't taking it well and then it causes an unpleasant atmosphere for you and the kids. Not long term though. You shouldn't be silenced, just in the immediate term to avoid as many confrontations. Get out the house with the kids for a walk or enjoy a nice bath. Try to get some respite for yourself. 
Have you been able to ask your husband if he has plans / would be willing to move job in order to improve his happiness? It looks as though there is a reason for his depression which is a good thing because it can be addressed once he is ready. If he feels hope, he might feel more motivated to change. 
I also agree with the post about your husband feeling you are a safe person to talk to / show frustrations to. My husband has a good job with a lot of responsibility. He has managed to hold down his job the entire time. He hides it so well, nobody would have a clue. It can feel lonely when you are the one at the sharp end and nobody sees what you are going through. 

onwards&upwards

ripplyuk said:

onwards&upwards said:

Black_Saturn said:

It is all so difficult. There are days when the threat of suicide seems very, very, real. Other days it feels as if it is nothing more than an emotional ploy, especially when I have raised the topic of moving out, or walking away. I could not bear it if I was responsible for that, though.

People who threaten suicide rarely do it.  People who are genuinely suicidal don't tend to use it that way. 

This is not true at all. It’s a myth, and a very dangerous one. So many lives have been lost because of this. The majority of those who die through suicide have told someone of their intentions, often many times. Those who threaten suicide, often go through with it eventually. 

https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/if-youre-worried-about-someone-else/myths-about-suicide/

"Myth: People who talk about suicide aren't serious and won't go through with it."

Right, that is a myth.  However that's not what I said.  I said people who threaten suicide.  Those who use the threat of it as a tool to manipulate and control others.  Talking about suicide is not the same as using it as a threat. 

OldishWench

Having to work for a living is no reason to talk about suicide. I can understand someone who is very depressed feeling there is no point in going on, but not someone who is just resentful about getting out of bed every day to work for their pay. It sounds more like a manipulation, an attempt to get you to say 'ok, poor love. You stay home and relax, and I'll go to work, and run the household, care for the children, do everything. Then you can be happy. Actually, that's exactly what I did in my first marriage, and he still wasn't happy. There was always something. I cut a tomato the wrong way once.

My point is, we all sometimes (often) wonder why we bother. It's a treadmill. Get up, go to work, come home. Clean, cook, clean again. Sleep. Start over. Then some of us realise that we sometimes have money left at the end  of the month, we're not drowning in debt, and life is pretty good. Or we can be like your husband and my first ex, and try to manipulate our partner into feeling they should do more so we can do less.

I don't want to sound too unsympathetic towards your husband, but I just don't see depression in any of the things you're describing, just manipulation. He wants to give up work and be kept. Who wouldn't? I'd take it.

Hell, I've been in the workplace for 40 years with another 10 to go. And I've worked longer hours since lockdown because I'm a software developer and demand for the stuff I deliver had increased massively in the last four months. I have a humungous mortgage that won't pay itself, and if I don't get it cleared in the next decade I won't be retiring until I'm over 70. But we're all in the same boat. 

If your husband is furloughed from the job he claims to hate but behaving worse, it can't be the job causing the depression, if depression is really his problem.