Financial abuse, how to talk about money

onwards&upwards

sunflowerstar said:

gwynlas said:

I lost my earlier post, but it was a bit judgemental.
Does hee resent you being a SAHM with all financial reponsibility being his?
Write out a menu plan and shopping list drag him to a supermarket and add things for the children and yourself  then he can pay.

I didn’t see it but it’s ok, I know how I would be responding to this post to be honest! 

Whenever we go out together he has no issue doing a full shop, if I add bits in he doesn’t mind. We rarely go out together though and again, it’s just that relying thing. But yes, I think there is some resentment. His job is demanding and mentally exhausting (as is mine in a different way!) he doesn’t get much downtime. And in all honesty he’d be an amazing stay at home dad but I wouldn’t even earn enough to cover the mortgage. So yes, I think that is a factor. I just wish he’d talk to me more about it, he closes up a bit and it’s hard to know exactly why he’s been like this because although it’s controlling I don’t think he’s doing it for control, if that makes sense? 

If that were the case, when you told him you needed more, or that you felt controlled, he'd have been open to changing things, or at the very least he would have increased the 'housekeeping' he gives you. 

He may not fully understand why he needs this level of control over you, but the end result is the same.  You are controlled by him and left selling your things to feed yourself and your children.  That's not acceptable.

Mojisola

sunflowerstar said:

 I don’t think he’s doing it for control, if that makes sense? 

You need to stop making excuses for him - there are no valid excuses for making his wife sell her personal possessions to keep the household going when he earning such a good salary!

sunflowerstar

Oh, my comments need to be approved, tiny writing I just noticed! Apologies for all the repeats hopefully I can delete them all! 

sunflowerstar

Maybe I just can’t reply to people right now? 

Anyway - thank you both and yes I agree. Regardless of his intentions this is the outcome and it’s not ok. 

I’m going to talk to him tonight, start with the emergency fund suggestion someone said earlier and also being up the practicalities of being hospitalised etc. Start with that. 

My other comments will show up soon enough I’m sure, I said a little more in those so don’t want to be repetitive! 

Savvy_Sue

sunflowerstar said:

Sea_Shell said:

What if he was incapacitated or hospitalised for any reason... would he serious be happy to effectively throw you to the wolves, as I'm guessing you don't have Power of Attorneys in place?

I have a bank account, and yes that’s a good idea as if he says no to emergency funds being available if he were taken ill... well. I have mentioned what if he were hospitalised or died and he said I wouldn’t have any issues accessing funds! How I laughed, I said do you really think that’s how it works? And that I’d want to go through that hassle at that time? 

You really do need to get Power of Attorney set up, for each of you. You'd be in major difficulty if anything happened to him. 

Would he consider some kind of relationship counselling? What might be ideal would be something like The Money Clinic, I have a feeling I heard they were looking for more couples to take part in it, but I can't quite track that down right now. Or you might find it useful to listen to some previous episodes: you might want to work out which would be good ones ... 

Failing that, YOU might find it useful to get some counselling on your own, to work out what you could do about this. If he realises how serious you are about not putting up with this, it might make him seriously reconsider his attitude. 

Actually, another thought: he sometimes doesn't see things as 'necessary'. I might start to prioritise my shopping list. His favourite beer? Not necessary, and in a choice between selling your things and buying that, the beer loses. 

HampshireH

Have you actually sat down with him and shown him the cost of things compared to what you get given.

Perhaps he really is just ignorant to the expense and needs to have a better understanding.

He seems to freely pay for everything else. And has done for a very long time. You say he has no hesitation in the food shop or you adding bits in.

Maybe he just doesnt get it. Keep the receipts (as a 1 off) for a month and show him the reality of how much whatever you are buying is actually costing.

I may have missed it but how much does he give you a month for these things?

Pollycat

sunflowerstar said:

I know. I don’t understand his attitude toward this. He was married previously and I’m not sure if he has some issues stemmed from that, I don’t know. He’s not controlling in any other way - where I go, who I see, what I do - and this is just really weird. 

There’s no reason for it and he can never give me any reason other than he doesn’t see it necessary. I’ve told him how it makes me feel but he said that isn’t his intention (although I pointed out that abuse is measured by the result not the intention, he doesn’t see it as valid). 

We have a lot of savings and he’s keen to save, which is great. I just don’t understand why I can’t be part of it or why I have to struggle when we are supposed to be a team 

My friend was married to someone who had a bad financial experience in a previous relationship.

I believe his ex emptied their joint account and left him.

He was vile with my friend (who had a low paid few hours per week job).

She had to contribute to the bills from her meagre wages - he also had a good job like your husband.

She paid for half of all Christmas gifts, even for his family.

It broke my heart to see her trying to do the best for her kids.

He eventually left her for someone else.

A few years on, you wouldn't recognise her.

She's the happiest person I know.

Maybe he behaves that way because he too has had a bad experience.

But he should not be tarring you with the same brush and making you suffer from the actions of someone else.

I agree with onwardsandupwards:

he is controlling you

and Mojisola:

you should not need to sell your possessions to make ends meet when he's earning upwards of £50k per annum

I would take some of the comments from here, such as showing him the cost of food, kids' clothes (does he really think his children should have to be dressed from charity shops? Before anyone has a go at that comment, I could afford to buy designer if I wished to. But I don't. I buy from charity shops. But from choice, not necessity. There's a difference) and ask him if he is willing to restructure your finances.

If he doesn't, it will be up to you.

But you may be better off - emotionally and financially - if you leave him.

sunflowerstar

Thanks both! 

It’s so hard to explain sometimes. Savvy_sue thank you, I’ll look at the money clinic. I don’t buy alcohol in with the weekly shop, I don’t drink and it pushes me way over budget so he picks that up himself. But I’ve said I’d like to be able to just do a whole shop, so we can really see what we’re spending on groceries instead of it being disjointed.

HampshireH, I think this is a big part of the issue but I don’t understand why he doesn’t understand. Maybe I need to do a presentation haha. For example, I have done an online shop and it’s arriving early next week. We have run out of a few bits so he’s going to the shop now and I know on those ‘few bits’ he’ll spend what I do on the week. 

It’s hard to explain, I feel it’s more the... freedom? Choice? I’ve said to him before that I can’t buy ‘nice’ stuff or treats so much and he said ‘well you do the basics and I get the treats, that’s how it works’ (in a jolly way) but I’m trying to get him to understand that that makes me feel like I’m scrimping and I don’t like it. I love a budget but we’re in a good position and I want to buy pringles too! 

It’s harder at the moment, all of us are at home and eating a lot. No school lunches etc which normally come out of his bank account. So he’s saving more and I’m spending more. I just want one pot. 

Another example is Christmas, Christmas is all on me I do everything for it (is high is fine, I enjoy Christmas and everything involved).  I spend very little because I’m a good shopper but he’s always horrified. I said that the sales at the moment were good and if I saw anything I’d like to be able to order it. He said that was a good idea. I said I can’t afford to order Christmas presents out of the house keeping and he said ‘but it’s only £20 here £20 there’. I said I count every penny, I can’t do that. He said he’d transfer £100. This hasn’t happened yet, I’ve mentioned it twice and now I just hate asking again. But he could order whatever gifts he likes whenever. That’s the difference, I hate it. If a friend invites me for dinner I try to make it a coffee instead to keep costs down. As a family we are frugal, we don’t eat out much or spend on days out but... I don’t know.

Sorry for the long posts, I’m just trying to work it all out. 
My other comments don’t seem to have shown up. I need to remind him that I’ve given up all of my potential (for now) to raise the children and keep the house while he progressed in his career. He couldn’t have done it without me. 

He gives me £400 a month. There’s more detail I want to give but I don’t want anything to be too identifying. We basically need a lot of savings right now, but I want to work together to achieve our goals, not apart. 

We just need a big chat I think but he seems to close up a bit. I’ll update again when we’ve had chance to sit down and talk it through. Thanks for being my sounding board, I really appreciate the space.

sunflowerstar

Pollycat said:

sunflowerstar said:

I know. I don’t understand his attitude toward this. He was married previously and I’m not sure if he has some issues stemmed from that, I don’t know. He’s not controlling in any other way - where I go, who I see, what I do - and this is just really weird. 

There’s no reason for it and he can never give me any reason other than he doesn’t see it necessary. I’ve told him how it makes me feel but he said that isn’t his intention (although I pointed out that abuse is measured by the result not the intention, he doesn’t see it as valid). 

We have a lot of savings and he’s keen to save, which is great. I just don’t understand why I can’t be part of it or why I have to struggle when we are supposed to be a team 

My friend was married to someone who had a bad financial experience in a previous relationship.

I believe his ex emptied their joint account and left him.

He was vile with my friend (who had a low paid few hours per week job).

She had to contribute to the bills from her meagre wages - he also had a good job like your husband.

She paid for half of all Christmas gifts, even for his family.

It broke my heart to see her trying to do the best for her kids.

He eventually left her for someone else.

A few years on, you wouldn't recognise her.

She's the happiest person I know.

Maybe he behaves that way because he too has had a bad experience.

But he should not be tarring you with the same brush and making you suffer from the actions of someone else.

I agree with onwardsandupwards:

he is controlling you

and Mojisola:

you should not need to sell your possessions to make ends meet when he's earning upwards of £50k per annum

I would take some of the comments from here, such as showing him the cost of food, kids' clothes (does he really think his children should have to be dressed from charity shops? Before anyone has a go at that comment, I could afford to buy designer if I wished to. But I don't. I buy from charity shops. But from choice, not necessity. There's a difference) and ask him if he is willing to restructure your finances.

If he doesn't, it will be up to you.

But you may be better off - emotionally and financially - if you leave him.

That’s exactly it, choice vs necessity. 

I’ve been in both positions in my life and even if I had all the money I would choose second hand clothing etc for many many reasons. But it’s the choice. 

I feel he has all the choices. I won’t go into details of his first marriage but it was all that and more, a horrible situation for him. I actually think, and always have thought, he needs to talk to someone and get his head in a good space. 

He’d never even come somewhere like this to just get it all out and work things through though. 

hb2

 You certainly need some money that is under your control and you don't have to account for. How many children do you have and how old are they? If you can't find an outside job, could you take in ironing (for example) so that you have something of your own? Of course, you shouldn't have to do that but you shouldn't have to beg your own husband for money either!