Are U1of 3million+ #ExcludedUK Getting NO Govt Support? Join us!

dunstonh

Just some parity with other tax payers for 3 million people who also pay their taxes.

Why are you including people in the 3mill figure who actively took action to reduce their taxation and NI in the good years but are now crying as they are not getting taxpayer funded support?

The 3 million figure is hokum.  It assumes that everyone in those positions is missing out.    They are not.

Jeremy535897

dunstonh said:

Just some parity with other tax payers for 3 million people who also pay their taxes.

Why are you including people in the 3mill figure who actively took action to reduce their taxation and NI in the good years but are now crying as they are not getting taxpayer funded support?

The 3 million figure is hokum.  It assumes that everyone in those positions is missing out.    They are not.

Sounds like it belongs on the side of a bus then.

HartleyHare

dunstonh said:

Just some parity with other tax payers for 3 million people who also pay their taxes.

Why are you including people in the 3mill figure who actively took action to reduce their taxation and NI in the good years but are now crying as they are not getting taxpayer funded support?

The 3 million figure is hokum.  It assumes that everyone in those positions is missing out.    They are not.

Hokum? You seem very certain about that. Care to provide some figures of your own? If Martin Lewis thinks it's 3 million, what causes you to disagree with him?

dunstonh

HartleyHare said:

dunstonh said:

Just some parity with other tax payers for 3 million people who also pay their taxes.

Why are you including people in the 3mill figure who actively took action to reduce their taxation and NI in the good years but are now crying as they are not getting taxpayer funded support?

The 3 million figure is hokum.  It assumes that everyone in those positions is missing out.    They are not.

Hokum? You seem very certain about that. Care to provide some figures of your own? If Martin Lewis thinks it's 3 million, what causes you to disagree with him?

I'm in one of those 3 million. Indeed, I am in multiple categories in that list. So, I could be counted twice or even triple.  And like many in those categories and part of that 3 million I am not excluded.   The figure is a very dirty calculation assuming worst case scenario.      

It isn't focusing on those in need. 

JLMitchell

Thank you for any help you can give Martin. Small businesses like mine have paid corporation tax and dividend tax and have no means of support at the moment. We are not stinking rich or tax dodgers as the vile haters try to make out, we are ordinary folk trying to run businesses following Government approved schemes. We have been abandoned and the Government's response is pathetic, the conclusions of the Treasury Select Committee NEED to be implemented before all our businesses are forced to close.

dunstonh

Small businesses like mine have paid corporation tax and dividend tax and have no means of support at the moment.

Dividends are an investment return.  It is where companies distribute back to the shareholders who invest in the company.  Dividends are not a salary.    However, you can utilise that method if you are a shareholding director and it reduces your personal taxation and avoids having to pay national insurance.

So, dividends have no reason to be supported by the Government as it is investment risk.  Sure, nobody predicted the pandemic and how the Government would act.  However, this is a consequence of your choices.

We are not stinking rich or tax dodgers as the vile haters try to make out,

To some extent you are.   You chose a method of remuneration that results in your paying less tax and NI compared to employment income under PAYE.

We have been abandoned and the Government's response is pathetic,

What you appear to be saying is that you didnt mind not supporting taxpayers in the good years but now want them to support you in the bad years.

banthetrolls

dunstonh said:

Small businesses like mine have paid corporation tax and dividend tax and have no means of support at the moment.

Dividends are an investment return.  It is where companies distribute back to the shareholders who invest in the company.  Dividends are not a salary.    However, you can utilise that method if you are a shareholding director and it reduces your personal taxation and avoids having to pay national insurance.

So, dividends have no reason to be supported by the Government as it is investment risk.  Sure, nobody predicted the pandemic and how the Government would act.  However, this is a consequence of your choices.

We are not stinking rich or tax dodgers as the vile haters try to make out,

To some extent you are.   You chose a method of remuneration that results in your paying less tax and NI compared to employment income under PAYE.

We have been abandoned and the Government's response is pathetic,

What you appear to be saying is that you didnt mind not supporting taxpayers in the good years but now want them to support you in the bad years.

Sorry but a very outdated view 

Also the issue of dividends is a problem but the real issue for the majority is the lack of any help whatsoever 
Absolute zero help unfortunately 

ComicGeek

banthetrolls said:

dunstonh said:

Small businesses like mine have paid corporation tax and dividend tax and have no means of support at the moment.

Dividends are an investment return.  It is where companies distribute back to the shareholders who invest in the company.  Dividends are not a salary.    However, you can utilise that method if you are a shareholding director and it reduces your personal taxation and avoids having to pay national insurance.

So, dividends have no reason to be supported by the Government as it is investment risk.  Sure, nobody predicted the pandemic and how the Government would act.  However, this is a consequence of your choices.

We are not stinking rich or tax dodgers as the vile haters try to make out,

To some extent you are.   You chose a method of remuneration that results in your paying less tax and NI compared to employment income under PAYE.

We have been abandoned and the Government's response is pathetic,

What you appear to be saying is that you didnt mind not supporting taxpayers in the good years but now want them to support you in the bad years.

Sorry but a very outdated view 

Also the issue of dividends is a problem but the real issue for the majority is the lack of any help whatsoever 
Absolute zero help unfortunately 

You're going to be disappointed then, as dunstonh is absolutely correct. And yes, I'm a Ltd company director paid by dividends, but not whining about things being unfair (that's what life is!) and just getting on with it.

HartleyHare

It really is outdated. The tax advantages of payment by dividends are minimal compared to 20 years ago. For many "micro limited companies" (a relatively new term, I have to admit) and recent startups, payment using a mixture of PAYE salary and dividends is utilised primarily to cope with the peaks and troughs of a variable income stream. 

[Deleted User]

HartleyHare said:

It really is outdated. The tax advantages of payment by dividends are minimal compared to 20 years ago. 

It really is not, the tax advantages have declined, but they are still fairly hefty, especially at lower levels of income.

HartleyHare said:

For many "micro limited companies" (a relatively new term, I have to admit) and recent startups, payment using a mixture of PAYE salary and dividends is utilised primarily to cope with the peaks and troughs of a variable income stream. 

The term "Micro-entity" largely relates to the type of accounts that they have to submit, micro companies can turnover millions, they only have to meet two of the three requirement which are a turnover of less than £632k, assets of less than £316k or ten or fewer employees. High profit, low asset companies can still be a micro-entity, one of the ways to keep assets low is to distribute the majority of profit via dividend. 
If they wanted to manage a variable income stream it would be far easier to do that using a bonus system, that would have the added benefit of not requiring them to submit a Self Assessment Tax Return.

As an example, below is the profit, for these purposes it is profit, pre-remuneration. I have accounted in the costs for er's NI, ee's NI, IC, CT (where applicable), dividend tax. For dividend I have paid up to the primary, then allocated the rest as dividend. Efficiency is the amount of pre-remuneration profit received after taxation. 

Pre-remuneration profit / PAYE tax paid (efficiency) / Dividend tax paid (efficiency) / Saving from dividend (percentage saving)
£15k / £1,670 (94.98%) / £1,179 (92.13%) / £490 (29.35%)
£25k / £5,905 (76.38%) / £3,636 (85.45%) / £2,268 (38.42%)
£50k / £15,755 (68.49% / £9,905 (80.19%) / £5,580 (37.13%)
£75k / £27,523 (63.3%) / £18,953 (74.75% / £8,596 (31.14%)
£100k / £39,789 (60.21%) / £30,609 (69.39%) / £9,719 (23.07%)
£150k / £68,992 (54.00%) / £56,446 (62.37% / £12,545 (18.18%)
£200k / £95,144 (52.43%) / £79,861 (60.07% / £15,282 (16.06%)

So as you can see at all levels of income the tax saving from dividend is considerable, on an average salary it saves you 37% off of your tax bill, but it especially benefits low and middle earners. It is simply not true that there is little saving to be had from using the dividend route.