Aldi, Corporation Street, Preston. Abused Patron Parking. Care Parking.

RKHX

Hi all,

I would really appreciate some advice, I am at the POPLA stage and would like to check I haven’t missed anything obvious before I submit.

A brief history:

I shopped at Aldi Preston on 19/04/2020 and returned to a ticket on my windscreen stating I’d ‘Abused Patron Parking.’ Having never had a ticket before, I followed the instructions on it and submitted an appeal to Care Parking with my Aldi receipt, assuming it would be cancelled on the basis that I had evidence I had shopped with there. I was really surprised when my appeal was rejected.

 

Unfortunately it was only then that I looked online and realised I’d made some major errors (ie appealed straight away and named myself as the ‘motorist’) – I am really kicking myself for this. I presume I have lost out on the ‘NTK get-out of jail card free card’ as a result. However, I have a POPLA code and will proceed with other lines of appeal.

 

My initial appeal (that I hadn't abused the parking because I was in fact a patron and had a receipt)  was rejected by Care Parking on the basis that a) you have to be on-site at all times to use the parking and the attendant witnessed me leaving site, b) I had parked close to a footpath leading off –site. C) And I quote ‘the evidence (receipt) you have provided would only suggest you were a customer at the time of 15:18 it does not evident that you were a customer at the time of contravention, we would therefore assume that this was not the case.’ Care parking has uploaded photos of my car parked, with the ticket on the windscreen (but not of me) and a map of the car park showing where my car was parked and the site exits.

 

I have found some very helpful info on this forum and am very grateful to those ‘who went before’ and posted their journey. Using this info I have put together my POPLA appeal (below) and would really appreciate any feedback. Before anyone says ‘appeals are 20 pages’… yes I am aware, but I can pad it out later if necessary, just wanted to keep the main points succinct so that it is readable at this stage.

 

POPLA appeal response:

A parking ticket was issued to car registration xxxxxx on xxxxx but I believe it was unfairly issued. I have appealed to the parking company and they have rejected my appeal on the grounds of ‘alleged contravention of Abused Patron Parking’.

• The alleged contravention did not occur and no evidence has been provided by the company to demonstrate that it did. The photographs provided as evidence by the company (appendix X) show no alleged contravention and demonstrate the vehicle parked correctly.

• The appeal rejection from the operator states that the vehicle was parked on the edge of the site and that the driver would have been seen visiting the stores, yet a receipt has been provided evidencing multiple purchases well within the 2 hour time limit provided to the driver.

 

• The appeal rejection from the operator also states that ‘the evidence (receipt) you have provided would only suggest you were a customer at the time of 15:18 it does not evident that you were a customer at the time of contravention, we would therefore assume that this was not the case.’ An ‘assumption’ the driver is elsewhere is not evidence that they are elsewhere. The driver did not leave the site and no evidence has been provided that they did leave site.

 

• There is nothing present in the car park or in the current signage (appendix X) that defines the site boundary or provides information as to what constitutes ‘leaving site’. If no such sign or evidence exists, then I contend that the driver could not have known where the car park site boundary began and ended and in the absence of this, I deny that there was any contravention. As a result, there was no contract formed with the driver to pay a charge in 'exchange' for going off-site; there was no consideration, offer or acceptance and no site boundary defined.

 

• Furthermore, the burden of proof shifts to Car Parking to prove otherwise and to explain why their attendant presumably:
1. Watched a driver or occupant walk towards the edge of an undefined boundary.
2. Did not attempt to stop/warn the driver nor even ascertain if a passenger had already been dropped at the door of the premises.

The attendant had a legal duty under contract law, to mitigate any loss. In VCS v Ibbotson, Case No 1SE09849 16.5.2012 District Judge McIlwaine stated:
“you say he left the premises...where does the premises start and where does the premises finish?...there is a duty to mitigate the loss.”
In this case now under POPLA appeal, I contend that Care Parking has neither demonstrated any evidence that there was a breach nor shown that their operative took any steps to mitigate any loss.

 

• There are no signs in the sight-line of the driver in the bay where the car was parked, either straight ahead, to the left or to the right. All signage is behind the car and I have provided photos, taken at a later date, to show this (appendix X). The point is made that the signage is insufficient in enabling customers parked in that row of bays, to agree terms of parking.

• The planning permission for the development (1995/1999, previously the Loxhams Garage) states several conditions that allows customers to park and shop at this site and offsite for 3 hours. The planning documents, Section 6.1 item 2, state 'customers can combine their visit with a trip into the town centre for shopping or other purposes'.  I assert that Care Parking has no grounds on which to issue a citation for abuse of patron parking because planning permission permits customers to leave the site.

• No evidence of landowner authority has been provided. *I will elaborate on this in the final submission*

 

The End.

 

Thanks for reading this far!

My only other question at this stage is whether I have definitely lost the option of ‘No keeper liability’ as grounds for appeal? As I said at the start, I identified myself as the ‘motorist’ when I first contested the fine with Care Parking. However, I only provided my name, not my address and I stated that I would not pay the fine. My husband is in fact the car’s keeper. If I decline to pay can they pursue me with just a name on record? Or would they issue a notice to keeper (husband) via DVLA data and he could appeal to POPLA instead using ‘No Keeper Liability’? Care Parking have not sent any correspondence to our address to date. Sorry if this is a stupid question, I’ve done lots of reading and am a little confused on this point.

 

Many thanks in advance for any assistance!

Rachael

Coupon-mad

The planning permission for the development (1995/1999, previously the Loxhams Garage) states several conditions that allows customers to park and shop at this site and offsite for 3 hours. The planning documents, Section 6.1 item 2, state 'customers can combine their visit with a trip into the town centre for shopping or other purposes'.  I assert that Care Parking has no grounds on which to issue a citation for abuse of patron parking because planning permission permits customers to leave the site.

That's darn good research!  Make sure you put a screenshot embedded into you appeal. like a picture not a link.  Never expect a POPLA assessor to follow a link, always provide actual documents or screenshots in your appeal word doc.

My only other question at this stage is whether I have definitely lost the option of ‘No keeper liability’ as grounds for appeal? As I said at the start, I identified myself as the ‘motorist’ when I first contested the fine with Care Parking. However, I only provided my name, not my address and I stated that I would not pay the fine. My husband is in fact the car’s keeper. If I decline to pay can they pursue me with just a name on record? Or would they issue a notice to keeper (husband) via DVLA data and he could appeal to POPLA instead using ‘No Keeper Liability’? Care Parking have not sent any correspondence to our address to date. Sorry if this is a stupid question, I’ve done lots of reading and am a little confused on this point.

You have to put your address in for the POPLA appeal anyway and they have your name (put zeros for the phone number, but a real address and real email address so you get the POPLA outcome!).

Was the NTK received within 14 days or did you appeal a windscreen PCN?

BrownTrout

Care parking , along with the likes of UKPC can never prove a driver left the site, when it is denied and the parking company is put to strict proof the company is never able to identity the driver, its an easy win at POPLA

Ralph-y

what did the manager of the for mentioned Aldi say when you complained? and what do you thing Aldi CEO will say when you complain

All to be done before the POPLA appeal

Ralph

Umkomaas

If that planning permission is still in place, this is ripe for a complaint to the DVLA (no reasonable cause for the access to the OP's personal data) and the possibility, if the OP is up for it (I really hope she is) for a CC Claim for a breach of the GDPR/DPA regulations. 

MistyZ

What Ralph-y says - do not miss out on the complaint - do that straight away.  Might almost feel like an anti-climax when the CEO obliges and has this PCN cancelled, but go for it, especially as POPLA assessors can be very dense / indifferent while Aldi have a good track record with cancelling scam PCNs.

D_P_Dance

Leaving site is almost impossible for a scammer to prove, and may well be an unfair term in a cnsumer contract under the |Consumer Rights Act.  It may also be a breach of your human rights under then HRA, so they would be skating on very thin ice if they tried  court claim.  

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Umkomaas

MistyZ said:

What Ralph-y says - do not miss out on the complaint - do that straight away.  Might almost feel like an anti-climax when the CEO obliges and has this PCN cancelled, but go for it, especially as POPLA assessors can be very dense / indifferent while Aldi have a good track record with cancelling scam PCNs.

ParkingEye seem to be the exclusive supplier of parking arrangements for Aldi stores, so I suspect that Care Parking will be contracted to someone else, probably, if this is a multi store retail park, a Managing Agent. 

@ OP - can you confirm the type of car park this is please?

twhitehousescat

the planning permission is still in place , not very easy to revoke it , is it !!
care parking know this , time and time again , they have been told , they will simply back down shortly , you may also want to check the 2hr limit , as this is also different to origional planning , parking eye (the previous PPC ) were nototious in reducing this , when they were skint , one xmas we saw this drop to 1 hr 30 mins 

again Parking eyes hands were tied at that site , no one paid them , it was commonly known that ALDI would not have there name banded tound in court , always interviened and annoyed PE 
one has to ask why car parking are on that site , they  normally operate at railway/metro sites , where again , there hands are tied 
I sustect the likes of UKPC , excel / vcs do not want to touch this site 

persist in complaint to ALDI , they clearly know the onsite rules , they will back down 

happybagger

Is it the Aldi on Queens Retail Park maybe? There are two Aldi's within a short walk of Preston centre?
The other one is on a retail park on Corporation Street. Neither are standalone stores

twhitehousescat

happybagger said:

Is it the Aldi on Queens Retail Park maybe? There are two Aldi's within a short walk of Preston centre

there are four aldi,s in preston , corporation st , deepdale , queens retail park and fulwood/lightfoot lane
 only one (corporation st) has care parking infesting it . only one is within walking distance of other shops , where it would ot be practicable to simply deive to them 

corporation st site is oned by aldi , in the it is a site with approx 4 or 5 retail outlets , all seperate , but under one continuos roof , at one stage blockbusters had a large presence and in fact PE camera system was fastened to there wall and camera/data senders were kept in a room in corner of blockbusters 
oh how we laughed when blockbusters closed , power was turned off and PE were sat scratching the backsides as there was loss of data and income for several months