Anyone have experience with PayPal/eBay - please help!

JJ_Egan

Wire ??  Federal ??  Thats the USA not UK .

davidmcn

JJ_Egan said:

Wire ??  Federal ??  Thats the USA not UK .

Yes, that's where the buyer is.

JJ_Egan

Thanks

Just confused OP asking question in a UK forum regarding USA laws and police .

lizzie201296

sarahking87 said:

lizzie201296 said:

sarahking87 said:

The mistake here is cutting eBay out of the equation and assuming the responsibility sits with PayPal, who are just the agent processing the payment. The terms for returns and disputes you should be looking at are eBays.

eBay will have a record of the auction and sale details even though it was 5 months ago. Assuming the buyer hasn’t deleted their eBay account, eBay can still raise a dispute and will act as an intermediary - seeking replies from both you and the buyer. If the buyer does not respond in a given timeframe (I think it is 30 days) you may be given an eBay fee credit and it’s as simple as that. 

Something similar happened to me last year where a UK buyer bought an expensive item from me. I sent it tracked , insured and signed for , and after c.40 days the buyer said the item hasn’t been received (there was tracked courier evidence to show it had been). As in your case, the money was taken from my account and the onus was on me to prove the buyer was acting unreasonably. 

eBay did , after a few weeks and several phone calls, agree that the item had been signed for and the buyer had acted unreasonably by waiting over a month to report a problem. I got my money back in the end. 

Thank you, this is really helpful. Will give eBay a go and see what they can do! Hadn't thought about going to them, assumed that as the transaction is no longer showing on my account, they are no longer involved. Fingers crossed!

No problem, although you should know a buyer can raise a chargeback via their CC company up to 12 months after the event. Some of these can be resolved by simply providing proof of postage

it would be interesting to know if the buyer left you any eBay feedback at the time, or confirmed via eBay messages when the item was received. In an ideal world you’d still have a copy of the tracking showing when it was signed for and by whom! 

Strange to have a “not as described” chargeback claim after 5 months ,  I’m surprised the credit card company accepted that. Usually unauthorised card use is a more common, retrospective complaint 

This is what surprised me - by claiming the item was not as described there is and can be no evidence to either prove nor disprove. If they don't submit photos, I can never prove that it was as described, and even if I submit photos of the item as it was when it left me, they could just say I'm lying.. so I don't see how the CC approved their claim after such a long time!

The buyer never left any feedback and has never made any contact with me at any stage from the first bid to now - this is what makes me suspicious. A genuine (non fraud) buyer would surely contact the seller, then at least leave a negative review!

I agree that the police would do nothing, but worth a last resort threat I guess.

born_again

sarahking87 said:

No problem, although you should know a buyer can raise a chargeback via their CC company up to 12 months after the event. Some of these can be resolved by simply providing proof of postage

Strange to have a “not as described” chargeback claim after 5 months ,  I’m surprised the credit card company accepted that. Usually unauthorised card use is a more common, retrospective complaint 

The max time scale for a chargeback is 120 days from the date of debit in this case. Even PayPal is only 180 days.

lizzie201296

JJ_Egan said:

Thanks

Just confused OP asking question in a UK forum regarding USA laws and police .

Yes - I'm a UK seller but the buyer is in the US, so assuming you would report them there rather than here? (Not that I will, but if I am going to threaten them with the possibility I'd like to have my facts correct!)

lizzie201296

born_again said:

sarahking87 said:

No problem, although you should know a buyer can raise a chargeback via their CC company up to 12 months after the event. Some of these can be resolved by simply providing proof of postage

Strange to have a “not as described” chargeback claim after 5 months ,  I’m surprised the credit card company accepted that. Usually unauthorised card use is a more common, retrospective complaint 

The max time scale for a chargeback is 120 days from the date of debit in this case. Even PayPal is only 180 days.

So if the buyer paid on 24/11/19 and the chargeback appeared on 18/04/20, that's 147 days. SO that's over the 120 days you've said, but under the PayPal one. Still amazed this is a thing - by this logic, I could buy something online, be perfectly happy with it then complain to my bank that it was 'not as described' after a few months and get my money back. What a way to get free stuff...

theonlywayisup

born_again said:

sarahking87 said:

No problem, although you should know a buyer can raise a chargeback via their CC company up to 12 months after the event. Some of these can be resolved by simply providing proof of postage

Strange to have a “not as described” chargeback claim after 5 months ,  I’m surprised the credit card company accepted that. Usually unauthorised card use is a more common, retrospective complaint 

The max time scale for a chargeback is 120 days from the date of debit in this case. Even PayPal is only 180 days.

Paypal allows 180 days for a buyer to open a dispute.  A chargeback is not a Paypal dispute and the two are very different.

OP, you have no way of knowing when the chargeback was instigated by the buyer so timelines are not exact for you to be able to reach a conclusion.  What you can do is work out if you are covered for Seller Protection.
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/seller-protection?locale.x=en_GB  Unfortunately sellers are not eligible for Seller Protection under Paypal rules where a chargeback for "Reversals for Significantly Not as Described".  Also there is likely a fee associated with the chargeback that you will be charged.  

Your only other option is to ask Paypal to counteract the chargeback on your behalf - which is what they have suggested if your post 1 is correct.  

You should therefore gather your evidence and submit it to Paypal.  You should include the fact you have had no contact with the buyer prior to the chargeback. Paypal will submit the information you provide to the merchant - you must do this within any timeframe given. Do not waffle or go off on a tangent (especially re timelines) just submit the chronological data as you have it and then keep your fingers crossed. 

lizzie201296 said:

born_again said:

sarahking87 said:

No problem, although you should know a buyer can raise a chargeback via their CC company up to 12 months after the event. Some of these can be resolved by simply providing proof of postage

Strange to have a “not as described” chargeback claim after 5 months ,  I’m surprised the credit card company accepted that. Usually unauthorised card use is a more common, retrospective complaint 

The max time scale for a chargeback is 120 days from the date of debit in this case. Even PayPal is only 180 days.

So if the buyer paid on 24/11/19 and the chargeback appeared on 18/04/20, that's 147 days. SO that's over the 120 days you've said, but under the PayPal one. Still amazed this is a thing - by this logic, I could buy something online, be perfectly happy with it then complain to my bank that it was 'not as described' after a few months and get my money back. What a way to get free stuff...

lizzie201296

Thank you everyone for your help. Not very hopeful that I'll be seeing that money again! I've submitted everything I can, and also made contact with eBay and the buyer (heard nothing back, of course). It seems to me that, since the buyer's bank has already approved it, my only hope is that PayPal will 'fight my corner'... but since the money has already gone and presumably in their eyes this is a drop in the ocean, they don't really have any incentive to get it back for me... It honestly feels like I've been stolen from, not something I've ever experienced before!

Well at least if anyone fancies committing a nice bit of online shopping fraud we all know how easy it is now... 

sarahking87

born_again said:

sarahking87 said:

No problem, although you should know a buyer can raise a chargeback via their CC company up to 12 months after the event. Some of these can be resolved by simply providing proof of postage

Strange to have a “not as described” chargeback claim after 5 months ,  I’m surprised the credit card company accepted that. Usually unauthorised card use is a more common, retrospective complaint 

The max time scale for a chargeback is 120 days from the date of debit in this case. Even PayPal is only 180 days.

I think the deadlines can be different for defective goods or not as described.
“ MasterCard chargeback code 4853 - Cardholder Dispute, Defective/Not as Described/Counterfeit. Up to 540 days.”

“Visa guidelines:

• Negotiations between the cardholder and merchant have been implemented and the attempt to resolve the dispute is ongoing
• The negotiations occurred within 120 days (but not more than 540 days) of the transaction processing date”