Will you comply?

Nargleblast

It seems odd that when self isolating we are advised by some authorities that it is ok to go out into your own garden, which could be only a few square metres of land right next to land occupied by other people on both sides, and yet it is not ok to go for a walk at a quiet time somewhere which you know will be devoid of human beings eg woods, country lanes. You cannot guarantee your neighbours will stay indoors while you go in your garden, but you know your local area and the parts where hardly anyone goes. I suppose it all comes down to common sense. If you're feeling rough it is difficult to summon up the energy to go outside your back door but fresh air is so healing. I feel for those who live in flats with no garden.

 I was horrified to read about the communal housing development where one warden now covers several buildings so visits an hour a day if that, That is shocking. People are comforted when seeing their elderly relatives go into sheltered housing because they believe there's a warden living on site who calls in every day to check on them. Not any more, it seems. Anyway, back to coronavirus - how do you get round checking on residents of these developments, knowing you're knocking on several doors with the potential to pick up a bug and spread it around? Plus the fact you may have the bug yourself and pass it on every time you call on someone.

You know what? We could debate this situation all round the clock until we disappear up our own backsides. The situation is what it is, it changes constantly and will ultimately resolve itself at some point. I have planned my next supermarket visit for next Saturday, and I am confident I will get what's on my list. If by chance they're out of something I will improvise or go without. This is a hiatus in history, just like the Brexit thing, Ebola, swine flu, the wars in the last century. Things come, things go. 

Rosa_Damascena

MrsLurcherwalker said:

I guess we're all not sleeping?  DD2  the GP says that while we are socially distancing and have no symptoms that going for a walk is going to stop us from going absolutely stir crazy BUT that we must be very careful not to get closer than recommended to any other people we pass while we're out.  

DD2 is spot on but if I were in quarantine and felt physically well, it wouldn't stop me from an invigorating walk along the seafront. You pass people momentarily, but I wouldn't be stopping to chat to dog walkers.

Anyone with respiratory symptoms should self-isolate as a precaution.

Rosa_Damascena

Prinzessilein said:

I live in a retirement flat. There are about 30 flats in this building. I am in my late 50s and live here due to disabilities.

The news today suggests that the elderly and those with underlying health conditions should ALL self-isolate, irrespective of whether they have any symptoms ..the period seems to vary from 1 week to 4 MONTHS!!!!

Has anyone considered just HOW we are to do this? Most folks in these flats don't have online access - and many do not have friends/family to do shopping for them....some don't have a telephone...  When I moved in here, we had a warden on-site from 9 to 5 Monday - Friday...and on-call via  alarm at the weekends...in recent years that has been reduced. The warden now has to cover multiple buildings  and may only be here for  an hour some days - and in that hour needs to visit some residents and do her paperwork. So no use asking her to help 30+ people who are self-isolating.

I'm pretty certain that the government put the impact of isolation on the well-being of those with reduced networks at the heart of their policy, and hence the advice this week. What's suggested here is classic PH advice, but its just not practical in the real world, all things considered. As I alluded to in a previous DT thread, loneliness can be a killer in its own right.

If your warden can set a little time aside, I would suggest she contacts you all individually to check whether you would be happy to be part of a buddy system - keep in touch with an individual in the block over the phone. As part of a cascade to make sure it's cross-referenced amongst others in the block, this can work well and highlight where someone is in serious medical need. I doubt it will happen, though!

Rosa_Damascena

Nargleblast said:

You know what? We could debate this situation all round the clock until we disappear up our own backsides. The situation is what it is, it changes constantly and will ultimately resolve itself at some point. I have planned my next supermarket visit for next Saturday, and I am confident I will get what's on my list. If by chance they're out of something I will improvise or go without. This is a hiatus in history, just like the Brexit thing, Ebola, swine flu, the wars in the last century. Things come, things go. 

The problem is that a good number of us will perish in the process - so out of all of these, I think Ebola is the only valid comparator. I agree that hysteria is unhelpful, but the risk is that pragmatism turns into complacency, and that is far more dangerous.

Pyxis

MrsLurcherwalker said:

I guess we're all not sleeping?  DD2  the GP says that while we are socially distancing and have no symptoms that going for a walk is going to stop us from going absolutely stir crazy BUT that we must be very careful not to get closer than recommended to any other people we pass while we're out.  We're lucky in that across the road from the back garden is a wooded footpath that leads to the arboretum and we've walked that twice now without meeting anyone.  The arboretum is slightly trickier because it's the dog walking hot spot for the village but is big enough and has many  different pathways in it that if you're vigilant and keep an eye out for dog walkers you can achieve the distance easily.  The news is saying that this week will see over 70s advised to socially distance themselves for however long it takes to  peak this virus which I think is overdue advice but I think many of the older folk I know will probably not take it which is a great sadness.  We are already socially distancing and that's scary enough without having to be worried for everyone else.

I always wake early! I like it!

I went out for a drive this morning, as I wanted to hand deliver an asthma questionnaire they had sent me to fill in. Then I went for a drive. I had intended to get out and walk in a local beauty spot, but there were already some people about and I didn’t want to have to keep dodging people, even though there was a lot of space.

I will go much earlier another time. One advantage of being an extreme lark! 😁 It was nice being out of the house, seeing the river, etc., and even seeing people about, from the safety of my car!

Yes, worrying about others is taxing. My neighbour, though not old, is in a vulnerable group, and she always insists on keeping going, which is what saw her get through a life-threatening event, so fair dues, but she will still insist on carrying on as usual now, shopping, going to church, travelling on a train to see her mother, etc. and it worries me to death. She just keeps saying she’ll wait and see what happens. She has a holiday booked for next month as well!
Abroad! 😱

hollydays

Pyxis said:

Onebrokelady said:

I'm just watching the BBC news channel ,and they are having a question session with a Dr
she has just categorically stated that if you are self isolating this means you should not go out for a walk, you can go out into your garden but only if it's big enough for you to stay two metres away from your neighbours and two metres from anyone else in the garden 🙀

hollydays said:

Onebrokelady said:

I'm just watching the BBC news channel ,and they are having a question session with a Dr
she has just categorically stated that if you are self isolating this means you should not go out for a walk, you can go out into your garden but only if it's big enough for you to stay two metres away from your neighbours and two metres from anyone else in the garden 🙀

But here it says "How to self-quarantine If you are well, but you have been in close contact with a case of coronavirus you will need to self-quarantine. You will also need to self-quarantine if you have returned from certain countries. This is to stop other people from getting coronavirus. Self-quarantine means avoiding contact with other people as much as possible by staying at home or in your hotel. You can still go outside for walks, runs or cycles on your own. But you should not spend time in close contact with other people. Other household members do not need to restrict their activities unless they are told to." https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/self-isolation-and-limited-social-interaction.html

This contradiction has been criticised.

The instruction not to go out for walks definitely applies if you are experiencing symptoms, however mild. Self-isolation.

The contradiction arises with the term quarantine, which apparently applies to people living with a self-isolating person or if you aren’t displaying symptoms, eg in the case of having had contact with someone.
 This contradiction has been heavily criticised, because if you are possibly incubating the virus, it makes no sense to risk passing it on by going out, That’s what quarantine is, after all.
Allowing family members to go out has also been heavily criticised, for the same reason.

My feeling is that if there is any chance that someone might have the virus, even if the symptoms haven’t started, they should self-isolate and follow those rules.

There’s a videoclip from Dr. Thingy that was somewhere on the forum yesterday which explains this. I’ll see if I can find it.



Edit....it took a while, but I found it......it’s long, half an hour, but for the quarantine stuff you could scroll to about 10.30 and start there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etlyvt9n_QE

Useful video from this excellent doctor. Although you say the advice to go out has been criticised, I've not seen it stated yet, and rambling , cycling groups don't seem to be saying it either? Not trying to be argumentative. We all need all the correct t info we can get. Seen a very useful video by same doc about the possible huge benefits of taking vitamin D😍

Prinzessilein

Rosa_Damascena said:

If your warden can set a little time aside, I would suggest she contacts you all individually to check whether you would be happy to be part of a buddy system - keep in touch with an individual in the block over the phone. As part of a cascade to make sure it's cross-referenced amongst others in the block, this can work well and highlight where someone is in serious medical need. I doubt it will happen, though!

The buddy-system could possibly work in theory...in practice it falls down at the first hurdle...more than half the people here don't have a phone!
If all over 70s are told to self-isolate, who is going to feed people here? Many of them rely on meals-on-wheels...you cannot simply drop the meals at the main door, you would need to come in to the building and leave appropriate meals outside each flat.
Over half the residents here have carers come in - some up to 3 times a day...who will be helping these people?

Personally, I will have contact with my neighbour ...she just happens to be my Mum!... I also have the internet, so I can order stuff...assuming the delivery people are prepared to come inside the complex to my flat....and I have a stash of wool and my knitting needles, plus a shelf or two of books and my TV and laptop...I won't lack for keeping my mind occupied....if using the communal laundry is not permitted, then I suppose I will resort to handwashing a few bits and bobs.

greenbee

I've been told to take paracetamol to bring my temperature down which should make me feel slightly less tired. Mostly I can do normal stuff, I'm just tired. I've also been told that given how rural the area I'm in is, I should try to get out for a walk every day, but make sure I stay at least two meters from anyone else. Given that I rarely see anyone on my usual walks and runs unless I make an effort, I don't see this being a problem. Mind you, I really don't feel like going out much at the moment, which isn't helped by the rain.

My mum has said that she thinks the most sensible thing she was told was to think about the social isolation in terms not of trying to avoid catching it, but assuming you have it and don't want to pass it on. She and her friends have sorted out shopping etc between them. The younger ones are shopping for the older ones, and they're thinking about how they can share online shops which they usually only use for bulk orders to share regular deliveries of fresh food.

They still plan to go for walks together, but will keep 2m apart and not go to each other's houses for coffee afterwards, so a good compromise. A lot of them are widowed and live alone, so they need to work out how to keep some kind of contact and not get lonely and depressed. Thankfully a number of them are retired doctors and still very much in touch with what's going on, so being sensible. The help she gets is still OK - outside help can be done with her supervising from a distance, inside help (cleaning, bedmaking, ironing) can be done  with her going into a room that they're not cleaning (she's got a studio in the garage, so she an always go and paint). Her cleaner has been told not to come if she has a cough or is feeling unwell. And as the spare beds are made up, it'll be a while before the need for clean sheets becomes urgent! It's important to remember that cleaners, gardeners etc. still need to work so we'll all need to think about how these things can be done safely. 

I think lots of people are looking forward to good weather - hopefully it'll be OK to drive over to see friends and family and sit 2m away from them in the fresh air!

Once I'm better, I'll go to see my mum for a few days unless there's a travel ban that covers driving private cars. Her house is big enough for it not to be an issue. Fuel can be self-service so I don't need to come into contact with anyone between my door and hers. My brother may go and see her just before Easter, and possibly bring her back here for a few days as long as we know I'll be able to take her home (I'm pretty much going to continue social isolation for the foreseeable future) as if she had to stay here for months neither of us would survive the isolation!

dolly84

You would think we were in the midst of a zombie apocolypse.  What I find mad is all the people who say they would stay in still expect to flick a switch and have electric, to have gas, internet and water - doesn't anyone need to work to keep these things going.  Then afterwards those same people will expect to be able to go to the local bakers, takeaway or cafe only to find it has shut down.  The economic effect of this will be far reaching and devastating, all for what?  To preserve life at any costs?

Angel_Jenny

I'm really not sure how it would work ............ I work in a challenging behaviour residential home and I haven't seen anything about what would happen to the people we support, the staff and the family of the staff. x