Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

shinytop

Petriix said:

I don't see any compelling evidence that PHEVS (or just hybrids) actually do reduce CO2. I understand that they could but they mostly don't. It's extremely wishful thinking to imagine that they run super efficiently; many models are badly designed so that the only way to heat the cabin or to provide sufficient acceleration is through running the engine. They are less efficient in full electric mode than EVs and the extra weight and complexity of carrying two drive trains negates many of the benefits of a full EV.

In my opinion they solve purely psychological problems, encouraging people to waste energy and cause pollution for the sake of 'peace of mind'. The real barriers to EV ownership remain initial cost and access to cheap charging. Range and public charging infrastructure are mosley red herrings. 

And you've hit the nail on the head. For most people, EVs would work - in practice - but not in their heads. The safety net of an ICE engine would overcome their worries, which are mostly to do with range and public charging.

I had a Golf GTE.  At the time I did 30,000 miles per year.  I charged it every day, sometimes more than once so maybe 6000 of these were EV miles or EV assisted miles. So that's 24,000 petrol/6000 EV as opposed to 30,000 diesel.  If the new Skoda had been available it would have been more like 50/50 ICE/EV.

thevilla

I didn't look at hybrid when buying a Leaf 2 1/2 years ago because I considered servicing an ice which had possibly only run for a couple of thousand miles a year a waste of money.

Regarding charging anxiety, 2 1/2 years ago I think zapmap listed around 25k chargers.  Now they claim over 50k.  I know there are more EVs but it's crazy to keep reinforcing the ' infrastructure isn't ready ' argument endlessly.  It's not perfect but even my home town of Telford now has rapid options, which I'll never use.  Most people use home charging.

Netexporter

You rarely (never?) see a full charging station on the Dave Takes It On videos.

1961Nick

Netexporter said:

You rarely (never?) see a full charging station on the Dave Takes It On videos.

The only time you see full charging stations these days is on a bank holiday when all the numpties leave it until they're down to their last 10 miles before looking for a charger. The media are usually close by eagerly witing for a queue to form.

JKenH

Sorry to drag out the PHEV discussion but here is a report on a long term 6 month test of a Vauxhall Astra PHEV. It includes a useful comparison from the same driver in a petrol Astra for 2 weeks averaging 48.6 mpg against the PHEVs 82.9 mpg

Fleet World Fleet: Vauxhall Astra Ultimate PHEV

https://fleetworld.co.uk/fleet-world-fleet-vauxhall-astra-ultimate-phev-9/

EricMears

Suspect the chap was 'bending' his results by dividing all the miles driven but just the total gallons of fuel used ?  Hence the 'drop' during his week without electrical input.

A 'fair' test would be to divide (total miles - miles on electrical power) by gallons used  or alternatively increase his gallons used to reflect the 'bonus fuel' from electrical charging.  Indeed,  if any of his electricity was bought at 80+ p/kWh the actual cost/mile would have rocketed.

JKenH

EricMears said:

Suspect the chap was 'bending' his results by dividing all the miles driven but just the total gallons of fuel used ?  Hence the 'drop' during his week without electrical input.

A 'fair' test would be to divide (total miles - miles on electrical power) by gallons used  or alternatively increase his gallons used to reflect the 'bonus fuel' from electrical charging.  Indeed,  if any of his electricity was bought at 80+ p/kWh the actual cost/mile would have rocketed.

Wow, 80p+/kWh! Is that how much it costs to charge nowadays when you are out and about?

The 650 miles the road tester did in the week when he was in a holiday cottage and couldn’t charge averaged 61mpg. The cost there in petrol would be around £73. The average EV user would probably have managed about a third of those 650 miles on his battery (say 220miles @3.2mpk x7.5p = £4.81 plus 430 miles @ 3.2mpg x80p = £107.90 Total £112.71. At almost £50 less to take the same holiday than in an EV it’s a pretty good case made for the PHEV. 

No wonder EV drivers like to keep within their car’s range.

EricMears

JKenH said:

Wow, 80p+/kWh! Is that how much it costs to charge nowadays when you are out and about?

It can be - but not if you shop around. e.g.  Instvolt seem to show 85ppu as 'normal' although Gridserve are 'only !' 69ppu.  Ionity (IF you can find one !) have a 'normal price of 74ppu  but Octopus customers can get that discounted to 61ppu.

EricMears

JKenH said:

The 650 miles the road tester did in the week when he was in a holiday cottage and couldn’t charge averaged 61mpg. The cost there in petrol would be around £73. The average EV user would probably have managed about a third of those 650 miles on his battery (say 220miles @3.2mpk x7.5p = £4.81 plus 430 miles @ 3.2mpg x80p = £107.90 Total £112.71. At almost £50 less to take the same holiday than in an EV it’s a pretty good case made for the PHEV. 

No wonder EV drivers like to keep within their car’s range.

It's an even better case for a BEV -  if you can avoid the most expensive outlets.  At one recent AirBnB I was able to charge at 7.5ppu although 30ppu for a stay without specialist EV charging is more usual.  And of course some users might even be able to charge gratis at their destination to get a free ride home.

JKenH

EricMears said:

JKenH said:

The 650 miles the road tester did in the week when he was in a holiday cottage and couldn’t charge averaged 61mpg. The cost there in petrol would be around £73. The average EV user would probably have managed about a third of those 650 miles on his battery (say 220miles @3.2mpk x7.5p = £4.81 plus 430 miles @ 3.2mpg x80p = £107.90 Total £112.71. At almost £50 less to take the same holiday than in an EV it’s a pretty good case made for the PHEV. 

No wonder EV drivers like to keep within their car’s range.

It's an even better case for a BEV -  if you can avoid the most expensive outlets.  At one recent AirBnB I was able to charge at 7.5ppu although 30ppu for a stay without specialist EV charging is more usual.  And of course some users might even be able to charge gratis at their destination to get a free ride home.

I am sure, in an ideal world, all of that is true, Eric, but you are being selective. You quoted the figure of 80+ppu to make your case against PHEVs, then to make out a better case for BEVs you opted to use 7.5ppu or 30ppu. My example simply reused the single figure (80+ppu) you chose for charging PHEVs and for a direct comparison applied it to a BEV owner in the same situation. 

Now back to the real world.

Caravan parks 'can't cope' with rising numbers of electric cars

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-64901247

Electric Car Charging Risks at Holiday Homes

What are the insurance implications?

The factors above highlight the potential increased fire and liability risks when using electric vehicle chargers, which could lead to significant loss, damage and injury. We strongly recommend that you speak to your insurer with regards to EV charging at your holiday home and how this affects cover.

A Schofields policy does not cover loss, damage or liability caused by the usage of electrical vehicle charging points or the charging of electrical vehicles.

Make your EV charging rules clear to your guests

Your booking terms and conditions are key to managing and mitigating the risks associated with electric vehicle charging at your holiday cottage.

Your terms and conditions should explicitly forbid the charging of EVs via a domestic charger at the property. Make your guests agree to your T&Cs before the booking is confirmed and repeat them in your guestbook.

Also, make sure your guests know the location of local charging points that they can use.

https://www.schofields.ltd.uk/blog/6556/electric-vehicle-charging/